If a sub-faction of EA thinks that the movement as a whole is unwelcoming to them or no longer represents their beliefs/values, it could make sense for them to schism into a movement that does represent them rather than to just leave slowly over time and form nothing.
Avoiding a schism requires active work by the community to ensure that everyone feels welcome, valued, and respected.
When I think about being part of the movement or not, I’m not asking whether I feel welcomed, valued, or respected. I want to feel confident that it’s a group of people who have the values, culture, models, beliefs, epistemics, etc that means being part of the group will help me accomplish more of my values than if I didn’t join the group.
Or in other words, I’d rather push uphill to join an unwelcoming group (perhaps very insular) that I have confidence in their ability to do good, than join a group that is all open arms and validation, but I don’t think will get anything done (or get negative things done).
And to be more bold, I think if a group is trying to be very welcoming, they will end up with a lot of members that I am doubtful share my particular nuanced approach to doing good, and with whom I’m skeptical I can build trust and collaborate because our worldviews and assumptions are just too different.
If you indicate to X group, directly or otherwise, that they’re not welcome in your community, then most people who identify with X are probably gonna take you at your word and stop showing up. Some people might be like you and be willing to push past the unwelcomeness for the greater good, but these people are rare, and are not numerous enough to prevent a schism.
Ultimately, you can’t make a place welcoming for every single identity without sacrificing things. If the X is “neo-nazis”, then trying to make the place welcoming for them is a mistake that would drive out everyone else. But if X is like, “Belgians”, then all you have to do is not be racist towards Belgians.
Adding a +1 - historical analysis of institutions and movements that have grown and succeeded in their goal, versus those that have stangated, suffered schisms, and split, would be highly valuable. I can’t remember the website but maybe there should be an EA Forum post bounty on this?
If a sub-faction of EA thinks that the movement as a whole is unwelcoming to them or no longer represents their beliefs/values, it could make sense for them to schism into a movement that does represent them rather than to just leave slowly over time and form nothing.
Avoiding a schism requires active work by the community to ensure that everyone feels welcome, valued, and respected.
When I think about being part of the movement or not, I’m not asking whether I feel welcomed, valued, or respected. I want to feel confident that it’s a group of people who have the values, culture, models, beliefs, epistemics, etc that means being part of the group will help me accomplish more of my values than if I didn’t join the group.
Or in other words, I’d rather push uphill to join an unwelcoming group (perhaps very insular) that I have confidence in their ability to do good, than join a group that is all open arms and validation, but I don’t think will get anything done (or get negative things done).
And to be more bold, I think if a group is trying to be very welcoming, they will end up with a lot of members that I am doubtful share my particular nuanced approach to doing good, and with whom I’m skeptical I can build trust and collaborate because our worldviews and assumptions are just too different.
If you indicate to X group, directly or otherwise, that they’re not welcome in your community, then most people who identify with X are probably gonna take you at your word and stop showing up. Some people might be like you and be willing to push past the unwelcomeness for the greater good, but these people are rare, and are not numerous enough to prevent a schism.
Ultimately, you can’t make a place welcoming for every single identity without sacrificing things. If the X is “neo-nazis”, then trying to make the place welcoming for them is a mistake that would drive out everyone else. But if X is like, “Belgians”, then all you have to do is not be racist towards Belgians.
Agreed! I suppose what I’m saying is that we make sure to do that active work now before things get too far out of hand.
I’m curious how other movements have managed this issue—do you know of any examples of success here?
Adding a +1 - historical analysis of institutions and movements that have grown and succeeded in their goal, versus those that have stangated, suffered schisms, and split, would be highly valuable. I can’t remember the website but maybe there should be an EA Forum post bounty on this?