I think that the “A narrative of EA as a cult” section is helpful for steelmanning this narrative/perception. I also appreciate your suggestions and ideas in the “How to make EA less cultish” section.
As far as I can see, you don’t explore any substantive reasons or evidence why “the cult-like features of EA pose a real issue” beyond optics; you note that “the impression of a cult could also explain why some of the recent media attention on EA hasn’t been very positive”, but this is about optics. So I’d be interested to hear/read you try to flesh out the “other negative consequences” that you allude to.
The easier option is to remove “(and it’s not just optics)” from the title and rename “It’s not just optics” to “It might be more than optics” or similar, but if you do have thoughts on the other negative consequences, these could be valuable to share.
(For context, I’m one of the people involved in reaching out to high school students, and I’m keen to understand the full implications—pros and cons—of doing so, and if there’s anything we can do to mitigate the downsides while retaining the benefits.)
You are absolutely right. I didn’t really explore any consequences of EA being cultish other than optics. As I said in the post, I don’t really have a good mental model of all the ways in which it plays out, but I do have a strong intuitive sense that it does have other bad consequences (honestly, this entire post is based on intuitions and anecdotal evidence—none of my claims are based on rigorous studies).
Having said that, here’s a very partial list of other consequences that I believe exist:
1. Making people with different levels of engagement with EA feel uncomfortable (you could say it’s also just optics, but I think they have good reasons to feel uncomfortable).
2. Bad epistemics, groupthink and echo chamber effects (I develop this idea a bit further here).
3. Not engaging enough with people and opinions outside EA.
4. Attracting mostly very specific types of people (again, maybe this could be labeled as optics).
5. Radical beliefs.
And just to clarify (I know that you know that, but just for the record) - I’m not saying that outreach to children is necessarily a bad idea. It has many pros and cons that should be weighed somehow. I hope that my post has been helpful in describing some potential risks.
I think that the “A narrative of EA as a cult” section is helpful for steelmanning this narrative/perception. I also appreciate your suggestions and ideas in the “How to make EA less cultish” section.
As far as I can see, you don’t explore any substantive reasons or evidence why “the cult-like features of EA pose a real issue” beyond optics; you note that “the impression of a cult could also explain why some of the recent media attention on EA hasn’t been very positive”, but this is about optics. So I’d be interested to hear/read you try to flesh out the “other negative consequences” that you allude to.
The easier option is to remove “(and it’s not just optics)” from the title and rename “It’s not just optics” to “It might be more than optics” or similar, but if you do have thoughts on the other negative consequences, these could be valuable to share.
(For context, I’m one of the people involved in reaching out to high school students, and I’m keen to understand the full implications—pros and cons—of doing so, and if there’s anything we can do to mitigate the downsides while retaining the benefits.)
Thanks for this helpful post. Strong upvoted.
Thank you for this comment!
You are absolutely right. I didn’t really explore any consequences of EA being cultish other than optics. As I said in the post, I don’t really have a good mental model of all the ways in which it plays out, but I do have a strong intuitive sense that it does have other bad consequences (honestly, this entire post is based on intuitions and anecdotal evidence—none of my claims are based on rigorous studies).
Having said that, here’s a very partial list of other consequences that I believe exist:
1. Making people with different levels of engagement with EA feel uncomfortable (you could say it’s also just optics, but I think they have good reasons to feel uncomfortable).
2. Bad epistemics, groupthink and echo chamber effects (I develop this idea a bit further here).
3. Not engaging enough with people and opinions outside EA.
4. Attracting mostly very specific types of people (again, maybe this could be labeled as optics).
5. Radical beliefs.
And just to clarify (I know that you know that, but just for the record) - I’m not saying that outreach to children is necessarily a bad idea. It has many pros and cons that should be weighed somehow. I hope that my post has been helpful in describing some potential risks.