This issue has clearly caused a lot of division in the community which is sad. I think the differences between the two sides do not have to be as great as they appear.
You mention Adam Rutherford as a good source, and I agree he has done some good work. I think it’s interesting to note that he probably actually agrees with Bostrom on many things here! Here is a quote from Adam’s book (p166);
When it comes to looking at IQ scores around the world and between different populations, the picture is far from clear, but there are some undeniable differences. The most up-to-date meta-analysis suggest that countries in sub-Saharan Africa are likely to score in the eighties,* as compared to US IQ standards, though these results are not universally accepted. This, obviously, is significantly lower. Interpreting these results is not easy at all, and while it is not possible to fully exclude genertic factors, these seem unlikely owing to the immense genetic diversity that is now well established across that continent.
For what it’s worth, if people want to see what Adam Rutherford himself thinks of this, he has been fairly forthright in his response on his twitter see:
For what it’s worth, if people want to see what Adam Rutherford himself thinks of this, he has been fairly forthright in his response on his twitter see:
Yes, he’s been very forthright in his opinion of Bostrom! But on the broader issue he has not been straightforward on Twitter, but rather has been intentionally vague (as many would in his position).
As far as I can see, there are three main issues:
Are their racial IQ differences?
Bostrom and Rutherford agree yes.
Are these differences caused by genes?
Bostrom thinks maybe yes, Rutherford thinks probably no (though it can’t be fully ruled out).
Whether and how it is appropriate or harmful to discuss the topic.
Clear disagreement between Nick and Adam.
They disagree about 3), and this is what Nick’s most sophisticated critics criticize him for, like you in this post.
But I think most readers don’t realize they agree on 1). If you look at the headlines, there are a bunch saying ‘racist Oxford professor thinks Blacks are less intelligent than whites/asians’. For the majority of normal people, 1) is very suprising. Rutherford is strategic in not revealing that he also aligns with 1), thus utilizing emotive language to critique Nick instead of clearly articulating what they disagree and agree with.
Rutherford says he is distributing a copy of his book to Bostrom. As far as I can see, the logical conclusion for Nick (if he reads it) is to update to increase his credence that 1) is true. After all, if even an anti-racist biologist ally thinks there are racial IQ gaps, that seems like strong evidence it is true.
I just want to add that I can’t think of anyone denying (1) - that there are actual observed differences in IQ tests between races. None of the people ragging on Bostrom are denying this. So the fact that Rutherford and Bostrom agree on (1) is entirely irrelevant and unsurprising. I think the main disagreement is on (2) and way more importantly (3).
I personally agree with titotal that taking a statement like “there are currently differences in average IQ test score between races, for a variety of reasons, primarily racism and it’s legacy”, and reducing it to “blacks are stupider than whites” is—in titotal’s words “stripping away all the context from a complex issue into a gross simplification with a negative spin that furthers a racist narrative”. I don’t really see what we gain from doing that or why that somehow is cool / should be protected / should be celebrated. I think that’s the main crux.
I just want to add that I can’t think of anyone denying (1) - that there are actual observed differences in IQ tests between races.
I think you’re mainly correct about individual EAs (though there are exceptions). People’s general policy is not to explicitly deny it, it’s just to ignore it, and shun those who mention it with a vague accusation of racism. But on a systematic level we clearly do deny it. For example, disparate impact tests, which punish firms for discrimination, assume equal levels of aptitude by race. Racial IQ gaps is not an acceptable defense in US civil rights lawsuits, nor in the court of public opinion if your group is accused of lacking diversity!
I don’t think this is a good way to think about it. I do actually think this is a pretty racist way of thinking about it. I guarantee you 100% that the reason wherever you are “lacks diversity” is not because minorities “lack the relevant level of aptitude”. And I think disparate impact tests are pretty clearly a good thing.
Thank you for this very sensitive post Habiba.
This issue has clearly caused a lot of division in the community which is sad. I think the differences between the two sides do not have to be as great as they appear.
You mention Adam Rutherford as a good source, and I agree he has done some good work. I think it’s interesting to note that he probably actually agrees with Bostrom on many things here! Here is a quote from Adam’s book (p166);
Thanks for this comment :)
For what it’s worth, if people want to see what Adam Rutherford himself thinks of this, he has been fairly forthright in his response on his twitter see:
https://twitter.com/AdamRutherford/status/1613534548779843588?s=20&t=3cy41nQ9L-8MvljHAn9Fog
https://twitter.com/AdamRutherford/status/1614239120552857600
Thanks for your reply. :)
Yes, he’s been very forthright in his opinion of Bostrom! But on the broader issue he has not been straightforward on Twitter, but rather has been intentionally vague (as many would in his position).
As far as I can see, there are three main issues:
Are their racial IQ differences?
Bostrom and Rutherford agree yes.
Are these differences caused by genes?
Bostrom thinks maybe yes, Rutherford thinks probably no (though it can’t be fully ruled out).
Whether and how it is appropriate or harmful to discuss the topic.
Clear disagreement between Nick and Adam.
They disagree about 3), and this is what Nick’s most sophisticated critics criticize him for, like you in this post.
But I think most readers don’t realize they agree on 1). If you look at the headlines, there are a bunch saying ‘racist Oxford professor thinks Blacks are less intelligent than whites/asians’. For the majority of normal people, 1) is very suprising. Rutherford is strategic in not revealing that he also aligns with 1), thus utilizing emotive language to critique Nick instead of clearly articulating what they disagree and agree with.
Rutherford says he is distributing a copy of his book to Bostrom. As far as I can see, the logical conclusion for Nick (if he reads it) is to update to increase his credence that 1) is true. After all, if even an anti-racist biologist ally thinks there are racial IQ gaps, that seems like strong evidence it is true.
I just want to add that I can’t think of anyone denying (1) - that there are actual observed differences in IQ tests between races. None of the people ragging on Bostrom are denying this. So the fact that Rutherford and Bostrom agree on (1) is entirely irrelevant and unsurprising. I think the main disagreement is on (2) and way more importantly (3).
I personally agree with titotal that taking a statement like “there are currently differences in average IQ test score between races, for a variety of reasons, primarily racism and it’s legacy”, and reducing it to “blacks are stupider than whites” is—in titotal’s words “stripping away all the context from a complex issue into a gross simplification with a negative spin that furthers a racist narrative”. I don’t really see what we gain from doing that or why that somehow is cool / should be protected / should be celebrated. I think that’s the main crux.
I think you’re mainly correct about individual EAs (though there are exceptions). People’s general policy is not to explicitly deny it, it’s just to ignore it, and shun those who mention it with a vague accusation of racism. But on a systematic level we clearly do deny it. For example, disparate impact tests, which punish firms for discrimination, assume equal levels of aptitude by race. Racial IQ gaps is not an acceptable defense in US civil rights lawsuits, nor in the court of public opinion if your group is accused of lacking diversity!
I don’t think this is a good way to think about it. I do actually think this is a pretty racist way of thinking about it. I guarantee you 100% that the reason wherever you are “lacks diversity” is not because minorities “lack the relevant level of aptitude”. And I think disparate impact tests are pretty clearly a good thing.