“He wants to explain his views and publicly apologize for an old email that somebody might put out to damage him...”
Though these words aren’t Bostrom’s, they create the impression that the apology is motivated by self-interest. Not a good start. The fact that Bostrom’s statement comes 26 years after the post in question does little to support the idea that the apology might be motivated by genuine remorse. Instead, it appears to be triggered exclusively by the fact that “somebody has been digging through the archives… finding embarrassing materials”.
Consequently, to me, the apology appears to be Bostrom’s signal that he is jumping before being pushed, all while suggesting that he’s a victim of being pushed.
“It does not accurately represent my views, then or now.”
In the email, he writes: “I like that statement and think it is true… I think it is probable that black people have a lower than average IQ in general...” . He’s explicitly endorsed his statement at the time, so how are we meant to take his claim seriously?For Bostrom to claim that he did not endorse the content of his email even at the time of writing is frankly ludicrous, and it’s doubly disappointing that he – influential academic that he is – expected people to believe him.
This abuse of logic is a stain on the apology, both to its sincerity and its credibility. This is the background on which I read the whole thing.
I think there might have been a successful way to apologise for the email, but this – in both presentation and content – isn’t it. I am so angry, and disappointed.
The fact that Bostrom’s statement comes 26 years after the post in question does little to support the idea that the apology might be motivated by genuine remorse.
Did you miss the fact that he also apologized within 24 hours of the original email?
Didn’t miss it. Sadly, I just omitted to mention it, since I don’t think it’s worth any attention.
I fail to see how that earlier apology might have been sincere either, when his position was sketched out so unequivocally just 24 hours before. For those who haven’t read it: “I like that sentence, and think it is true.”
In my eyes, this timeframe really undermines the credibility of his previous apology, to the point of making it irrelevant. If you claim to reject views just 24 hours after endorsing them so clearly, I just can’t take your word seriously.
The only reason I can see for such a swift U-turn isn’t a change in worldview, but a fear of how that worldview would be received. People don’t change their minds about these issues overnight.
In any case, the apology simply doesn’t appear to come from the right place. It didn’t then, and it doesn’t now.
How can both a 24 hour turnaround and a 26 year delay be evidence of an insincere apology? Where is the apology delay sweet spot in your eyes — one week later? A month later?
Maybe you think he should have apologized once a year every year on the anniversary of the email?
Sorry for snarky tone, but I feel that being in the business of nitpicking and rejecting apologies is quite a bad policy.
I think there’s evidence that both apologies are insincere, albeit for different reasons (though that may not be clear).
You literally listed the timeframe as a reason (among others) to reject both apologies.
Here are your words again:
The fact that Bostrom’s statement comes 26 years after the post in question does little to support the idea that the apology might be motivated by genuine remorse.
and:
In my eyes, this timeframe really undermines the credibility of his previous apology, to the point of making it irrelevant. If you claim to reject views just 24 hours after endorsing them so clearly, I just can’t take your word seriously.
Perhaps your other points are valid. What I’m quibbling with is just having it both ways on whether a quick turnaround or long delay indicates an insincere apology (just based on the timeframe). You’ve claimed both in this thread, and I don’t think that’s fair.
Sure, I can see that. What I meant was the timeframe in context − 26 years later being the point at which someone threatened to dig things up. I think the apology could have succeeded, but owing to its content, it wasn’t.
This is a position that’s consistent with my original post, reading it back. 26 years does little to help Bostrom—why? Not because it’s a long time in itself, but because it’s clearly the point at which something outside happens—the threat of exposure.
While I think the short timeframe is a reason itself to consider the first apology insincere, the long timeframe isn’t, at least intrinsically. Perhaps I should have made that clearer, but I hope you’ll forgive me for not doing so. If you’re disagreeing with me in good faith, I appreciate that, but my position simply isn’t how you’ve characterised it. Contrary to what you’ve said, at no point do I claim that the timeframe is a reason to reject the later apology.
My view is: Bostrom’s statement was inadequate and it came 26 years later. I maintain the fact that the timeframe doesn’t help him, as the apology is so clearly motivated by the threat of bad PR surfacing 26 years later, but the timeframe itself doesn’t make it inadequate.
The content of Bostrom’s statement informs my position here, where he expects people to believe that he didn’t endorse the position even then… I don’t need to explain this.
My view is not: Bostrom’s statement was inadequate purely because it came 26 years later.
In the case of the 26-year-later apology, the timeframe is salient to me because it represents the point at which Bostrom realised the risk that he might be exposed.
This compromises how seriously I take the apology.
If you found my OP unclear, I apologise, but stand by its content—I make it clear at the end that I think he could’ve apologised successfully 26 years later, but this wasn’t the solution. My post was originally motivated by finding the apology ultimately unsatisfactory (which I still do), and I remain angry with Bostrom for reasons I consider legitimate.
“He wants to explain his views and publicly apologize for an old email that somebody might put out to damage him...”
Though these words aren’t Bostrom’s, they create the impression that the apology is motivated by self-interest. Not a good start. The fact that Bostrom’s statement comes 26 years after the post in question does little to support the idea that the apology might be motivated by genuine remorse. Instead, it appears to be triggered exclusively by the fact that “somebody has been digging through the archives… finding embarrassing materials”.
Consequently, to me, the apology appears to be Bostrom’s signal that he is jumping before being pushed, all while suggesting that he’s a victim of being pushed.
“It does not accurately represent my views, then or now.”
In the email, he writes: “I like that statement and think it is true… I think it is probable that black people have a lower than average IQ in general...” . He’s explicitly endorsed his statement at the time, so how are we meant to take his claim seriously? For Bostrom to claim that he did not endorse the content of his email even at the time of writing is frankly ludicrous, and it’s doubly disappointing that he – influential academic that he is – expected people to believe him.
This abuse of logic is a stain on the apology, both to its sincerity and its credibility. This is the background on which I read the whole thing.
I think there might have been a successful way to apologise for the email, but this – in both presentation and content – isn’t it. I am so angry, and disappointed.
Did you miss the fact that he also apologized within 24 hours of the original email?
Didn’t miss it. Sadly, I just omitted to mention it, since I don’t think it’s worth any attention.
I fail to see how that earlier apology might have been sincere either, when his position was sketched out so unequivocally just 24 hours before. For those who haven’t read it: “I like that sentence, and think it is true.”
In my eyes, this timeframe really undermines the credibility of his previous apology, to the point of making it irrelevant. If you claim to reject views just 24 hours after endorsing them so clearly, I just can’t take your word seriously.
The only reason I can see for such a swift U-turn isn’t a change in worldview, but a fear of how that worldview would be received. People don’t change their minds about these issues overnight.
In any case, the apology simply doesn’t appear to come from the right place. It didn’t then, and it doesn’t now.
How can both a 24 hour turnaround and a 26 year delay be evidence of an insincere apology? Where is the apology delay sweet spot in your eyes — one week later? A month later?
Maybe you think he should have apologized once a year every year on the anniversary of the email?
Sorry for snarky tone, but I feel that being in the business of nitpicking and rejecting apologies is quite a bad policy.
I think there’s evidence that both apologies are insincere, albeit for different reasons (though that may not be clear).
24-hour apology: timeframe too short
26 years later: clearly motivated by fear of bad press
NB I think the 26-year-later apology could have been successful, but considering its content, it isn’t.
I also think it’s uncharitable to characterise my position as nitpicking—I just think that some apologies can fail, and this is one of them
You literally listed the timeframe as a reason (among others) to reject both apologies.
Here are your words again:
and:
Perhaps your other points are valid. What I’m quibbling with is just having it both ways on whether a quick turnaround or long delay indicates an insincere apology (just based on the timeframe). You’ve claimed both in this thread, and I don’t think that’s fair.
Sure, I can see that. What I meant was the timeframe in context − 26 years later being the point at which someone threatened to dig things up. I think the apology could have succeeded, but owing to its content, it wasn’t.
This is a position that’s consistent with my original post, reading it back. 26 years does little to help Bostrom—why? Not because it’s a long time in itself, but because it’s clearly the point at which something outside happens—the threat of exposure.
While I think the short timeframe is a reason itself to consider the first apology insincere, the long timeframe isn’t, at least intrinsically. Perhaps I should have made that clearer, but I hope you’ll forgive me for not doing so. If you’re disagreeing with me in good faith, I appreciate that, but my position simply isn’t how you’ve characterised it. Contrary to what you’ve said, at no point do I claim that the timeframe is a reason to reject the later apology.
My view is: Bostrom’s statement was inadequate and it came 26 years later. I maintain the fact that the timeframe doesn’t help him, as the apology is so clearly motivated by the threat of bad PR surfacing 26 years later, but the timeframe itself doesn’t make it inadequate.
The content of Bostrom’s statement informs my position here, where he expects people to believe that he didn’t endorse the position even then… I don’t need to explain this.
My view is not: Bostrom’s statement was inadequate purely because it came 26 years later.
In the case of the 26-year-later apology, the timeframe is salient to me because it represents the point at which Bostrom realised the risk that he might be exposed.
This compromises how seriously I take the apology.
If you found my OP unclear, I apologise, but stand by its content—I make it clear at the end that I think he could’ve apologised successfully 26 years later, but this wasn’t the solution. My post was originally motivated by finding the apology ultimately unsatisfactory (which I still do), and I remain angry with Bostrom for reasons I consider legitimate.