it was a lot less bad than what I’d have expected based on the TIME piece account
From my personal perspective: While the additional context makes the interaction itself seem less bad, I think the fact that it involved Owen (rather than, say, a more tangentially involved or less influential community member) made it a lot worse than what I would have expected. In addition, this seems the firstsecond time (after this one*) I hear about a case that the community health team didn’t address forcefully enough, which wasn’t clear to me based on the Time article.
* edited based on feedback that someone sent me via DM, thank you
(edit: I think you acknowledge this elsewhere in your comment)
Yeah, I’ll note because the memory might slip away that my initial reaction to the TIME article paragraph about Owen was: - horror/disgust - hope that the person was not as central as implied in the text - (get distracted by my own work/life and allow the news to slip into the background of my mind, and allow the hope to transform into an implicit feeling that the person was, hopefully, not as central as Owen was) - have an unjustified implicit belief that the person is not core to EA - find out that that was wrong <-- I am here, and the only reason I can detect my previous implicit beliefs is from the current feeling of surprisal
Yeah, it being more pervasive and entangled with EA culture than I thought is one of my takeaways, and I’ve been spending some time to reflect and think about ways I could help improve things.
This isn’t a story about ‘sexual harassment’ because there was none / ‘sexual harassment’ is in fact widely and deeply rooted, as shown by this incident of ‘sexual harassment’.
I don’t think Owen did anything that requires more than a private apology and a suggestion from friends to be less of an idiot, and even that is only necessary because the people around him are idiots in a different way.
However, I accept that some people think that what he did was awful and reprehensible, and I agree with them that a tendency to behaviors of that sort is likely to be common.
Also, the phrase ‘sexual harassment’ is not a clear symbol pointing to a concept cluster that is structured the same in everyone’s mind, but in fact a muddy and politically contested thing that probably links to a different set of things in my head than yours.
Hence the request elsewhere in the comments for CEA to give a more precise definition of ‘sexual harassment’
From my personal perspective: While the additional context makes the interaction itself seem less bad, I think the fact that it involved Owen (rather than, say, a more tangentially involved or less influential community member) made it a lot worse than what I would have expected. In addition, this seems the
firstsecond time (after this one*) I hear about a case that the community health team didn’t address forcefully enough, which wasn’t clear to me based on the Time article.* edited based on feedback that someone sent me via DM, thank you
(edit: I think you acknowledge this elsewhere in your comment)
Yeah, I’ll note because the memory might slip away that my initial reaction to the TIME article paragraph about Owen was:
- horror/disgust
- hope that the person was not as central as implied in the text
- (get distracted by my own work/life and allow the news to slip into the background of my mind, and allow the hope to transform into an implicit feeling that the person was, hopefully, not as central as Owen was)
- have an unjustified implicit belief that the person is not core to EA
- find out that that was wrong <-- I am here, and the only reason I can detect my previous implicit beliefs is from the current feeling of surprisal
Could it also mean the sexual harassment problem is much wider and deeper rooted than we think?
Yeah, it being more pervasive and entangled with EA culture than I thought is one of my takeaways, and I’ve been spending some time to reflect and think about ways I could help improve things.
This isn’t a story about ‘sexual harassment’ because there was none / ‘sexual harassment’ is in fact widely and deeply rooted, as shown by this incident of ‘sexual harassment’.
Sorry I’m struggling to understand what this comment is saying. Can you reword it?
I don’t think Owen did anything that requires more than a private apology and a suggestion from friends to be less of an idiot, and even that is only necessary because the people around him are idiots in a different way.
However, I accept that some people think that what he did was awful and reprehensible, and I agree with them that a tendency to behaviors of that sort is likely to be common.
Also, the phrase ‘sexual harassment’ is not a clear symbol pointing to a concept cluster that is structured the same in everyone’s mind, but in fact a muddy and politically contested thing that probably links to a different set of things in my head than yours.
Hence the request elsewhere in the comments for CEA to give a more precise definition of ‘sexual harassment’
That’s what I was commenting on. I agree with your other points (which are arguably more important from a “what does this mean for EA?” perspective).
Ok, sorry in case that was a bit of a strawman!
Strongly agree with (both parts of) this.