I should keep 1. in mind when communicating with EA orgs representatives. This can be relatively easy to implement, for example by a Sheets formula that displays all responses with the checkbox TRUE and leaves rows with sharing checkbox FALSE blank. Then, copying all non-blank rows to a spreadsheet that combines data from different applications. Applicants could even suggest edits (e. g. delete or modify their responses) using the gmail account associated with their application.
2. OK, that is a great idea. Writing on the Forum can give a very detailed picture about the person’s actual interests. I suggested it via the EA Forum feature suggestion thread.
3. OK, let me take a bit of time to develop this. This can be added to the responses from the other applications. I argue for adding these in one row, maybe index matching by e-mail or other unique identifier. Rewriting responses that are edited can be taken care of by having the same fields from the original form always linked.
That makes sense, orgs should be able to add or modify questions, if anyone is bought in. The main bottleneck, in my perspective, is not enough jobs that are interesting enough for candidates who do not have their own projects in mind (for example, being an assistant of a researcher may be not so appealing to someone who wants to advance megaprojects). This can be resolved by supporting independent projects that also develop expertise (maybe ideal project question can be added) and more employee shadowing (cognizant of info hazards) (including for free or small stipend) opportunities. I could suggest this consideration when communicating with EA org employees.
Regarding modifying agreement about application steps to applying to many orgs at once and just copying the responses I agree. It is easier for everyone.
Yes, maybe the question can be whether interview responses should be included and if so, in what form. I think that full interview recordings can be biasing since the responses are tailored or pertinent to a specific job. Full interview notes can be also biasing, since they can pinpoint reasons for rejection for a particular role rather than describe general skillset. One way to ‘protect’ candidates while providing value can be adding skillset description and recommendations regarding applying to similar or different roles. So, for example, if someone fails a specific PA interview but has a PA skillset, that that is specified and further, maybe a recommendation is to ‘demonstrate ability to professionally answer many emails’ or ‘apply for a PA of a farm animal welfare researcher.’
Note you can copy from one Google Sheet to another one automatically with a formula
+1 !
“let me take a bit of time to develop this” : I assume you don’t mean software development (?) this is all built in. Here’s my idea for MVP questions, ALL ARE OPTIONAL (yes, all)
Name
EA Forum link
Email
(Other preferred communication instead of email)
linkedin
CV (upload)
Other links
Interested in (professional domain) [multi select]
Software engineering
Operations
...
Other [free text]
Cause areas I’d be happy to work on [multi select]
Global poverty
EA Meta
...
I don’t care, anything EA aligned
Other [free text]
Orgs I’d like to work at [multi select]
Official EA orgs
Orgs recommended by 80k
Orgs where at least one founder took the founders’ pledge
Other [free text]
Other notes you’d like orgs to read when they consider contacting you
Yes, I mean to use maybe a Google Form. Ah hah, it makes sense that all can be optional (name, sure) but even no way of contacting the candidate can be possible (maybe just writing in the form—hm here is where digital people enter haha).
Ok, what about some interview-like questions, such as
Describe a time you were resolving an important problem.
What are you currently working on improving and what should you be?
How do you go about prioritization at work?
Describe a time you received or gave feedback. How did you feel?
How would you summarize your unique skillset?
How did you became interested in applying for the employment that you are specifying?
What is your role in a team? What should it be?
Or, questions relevant to the specific candidate’s preferences
What would an ideal employment look like for you?
Describe a collaborative working arrangement that you especially like or dislike.
What offers would you likely turn down?
Or, something that shows the applicants’ interests more broadly, such as
What is an article that you recently read? What do you think about it?
What article did you change your mind about? How?
What course did you take but realized that is irrelevant to what you want to do?
Axiological, moral value, and risk attitude questions can add information on the candidate’s fit, such as
How would you negotiate between scientific progress and wellbeing research of entities that do not contribute to progress, under scarce resources?
When is the Repugnant or Sadistic Conclusion (Population axiology, Greaves, 2017) permissible? Find a situation.
In his “All animals are equal,” Peter Singer argues that “Equal consideration for different beings may lead to different treatment and different rights.” How can this go optimally and badly?
When would you friends describe you as risk-averse or risk-seeking? How would you feel about their description?
10. orgs multiselect: for non-EA orgs (recommended by 80k), it can be interesting to just copy general interest app fields and then (if it would not constitute a reputational loss risk for the applicant) paste the responses and see what happens. Founders Pledge orgs make sense—have not thought of these.
Maybe I can go through some applications of EA-related orgs, Funds, 80k orgs, Founders Pledge ventures, opportunities relevant to Probably Good profiles, etc to synthesize questions.
EAs often don’t apply because the application forms are too long
In impact colabs, sometimes people don’t even fill in our form, and they schedule a talk with me instead
Also, “eyes on the ball”:
The top priority bottle neck that I am trying to solve is “letting EA orgs contact candidates”.
All the other questions more or less help filter down candidates.
If you help EA orgs filter candidates at the cost of “scaring away” some candidates because of a too long form—then I think you are probably making a mistake, or at least I would think very hard before doing it.
Note that I haven’t heard from EA orgs that they get too many candidates and need help filtering them down. So this falls into “solving a problem that may not exist”.
I do think/hope that asking what general profession the person wants to work in would not deter too many people (especially since I offer checkboxes). I do admit, though, that I am not confident that even asking for a CV/linkedin is a good idea since candidates are often nervous about it (but I decided yes to include it by default)
OK, there should be a minimal option (e. g. just upload a CV)
I could be interested in speaking with people, maybe I can test via a Calendly link for a test period (speaking can still be the most efficient)
eyes on the ball: after speaking with people, they have to fill out the form?
There should be the option to just link a CV. After, people could answer more questions or schedule a call.
Ok, so getting people upload a CV may be key.
Oh, well, they have to upload something. They can always update or delete it and will not be penalized for any earlier uploads as these are overwritten. Maybe asking about priorities that they think progress should be made in can provide similar information to what they want to make progress in but make people less nervous.
The main bottleneck, in my perspective, is not enough jobs that are interesting enough for candidates who do not have their own projects in mind
I talk to many EAs (especially devs) who are considering applying to orgs and I can tell you for sure that there are all sorts of other problems (including ones not in the link maybe) that could be solved by making it easier and less scary to apply.
I actually think I never talked to someone who didn’t have at least one project in mind that they’d be excited to join (but perhaps I’m forgetting something. Anyway it’s at least rare)
Edit: Something that does happen often is that a person thinks that no exciting EA project exists, but then I tell them about such a project that they haven’t yet considered
Yes, there should be enough actually interesting opportunities (for developers) ranging from AI safety research and increasing NGO, impact sector, and public infrastructure efficiencies to developing products that apply safety principles, communicating with hardware manufacturers, informing AI strategy and policy, or upskilling in an area that they have not explored and pivoting. It should not be scary to apply, management by fear reduces thriving.
From the link/your writing, feedback of a candidate who rejected an offer can be also valuable. General support with CV writing can be valuable, as long as it highlights candidates’ unique background and identities rather than standardizes the documents.
What is the percentage of people interested in something who applied for funding and who tried to find someone interested in a similar project, as an estimate?
What if this recommendation was not done as part of a discussion but written, would people who you spoke with still be enthusiastic about the recommendations?
From the link/your writing, feedback of a candidate who rejected an offer can be also valuable. General support with CV writing can be valuable, as long as it highlights candidates’ unique background and identities rather than standardizes the documents.
Sorry, I didn’t understand the context, do you mean you’d want to offer these things too? (At the MVP?)
2.
What is the percentage of people interested in something who applied for funding and who tried to find someone interested in a similar project, as an estimate?
Sorry, I didn’t understand this either, could you ask in different words? (or explain why you’re asking, maybe that would help me?)
3.
What if this recommendation was not done as part of a discussion but written, would people who you spoke with still be enthusiastic about the recommendations?
I publish articles after I user test them. I do have one draft article about a similar topic that has good early results but I am not yet confident in it. Here’s the link to the draft, if you’d like to look/comment (though I wouldn’t count it as a user test unless you’re somewhat looking for a job yourself, and if you’d, before reading, tell me your default plans for the next few weeks/months (so we can see if the article changed anything)).
1. I think that feedback regarding rejected offers can be valuable and low marginal effort (e. g. adding a column). Some CV writing support could be taken care of by Career Centers (that are sometimes available also to alumni). EA community members could further assist with CV specifics if they are familiar with what different (competitive) positions are looking for that the candidate can highlight. As an MVP, comments on linked docs can be used.
2. I mean, of the people who you spoke with and who had idea of a personal project
a) How many applied for EA-related funding to work on this project and how many did not?
b) What percentage tried to find someone with a similar idea in mind to work with them on the project?
I am asking to assess to what extent people with personal project ideas could be constrained by encouragement to apply for funding and by being connected with someone else. If they applied and were rejected then integrating funds can be less of a value. If they looked for collaborators but could not find any, then increasing the number of skilled people should be prioritized over recommending connections.
3. Tested. Realizing that writing can motivate engagement/action.
I think that feedback regarding rejected offers can be valuable and low marginal effort (e. g. adding a column)
I’m pretty sure this is wrong. If it was so easy, orgs would already give feedback today by email or something, the problem is not the missing column.
Some CV writing support could be taken care of by Career Centers
This doesn’t sound like what I’d call an MVP (unless this was the entire project), but I will stop trying to convince you about this by default
of the people who you spoke with and who had idea of a personal project
a) How many applied for EA-related funding to work on this project and how many did not?
Eh, I don’t have a good “feel” for this. I encourage people to apply to funding when it seems relevant. Applying for funding does seem at least somewhat scary, I know this myself too.
b) What percentage tried to find someone with a similar idea in mind to work with them on the project?
It is very common for people to look for a cofounder (which does not mean “someone with a similar idea”)
Thank you very much.
I should keep 1. in mind when communicating with EA orgs representatives. This can be relatively easy to implement, for example by a Sheets formula that displays all responses with the checkbox TRUE and leaves rows with sharing checkbox FALSE blank. Then, copying all non-blank rows to a spreadsheet that combines data from different applications. Applicants could even suggest edits (e. g. delete or modify their responses) using the gmail account associated with their application.
2. OK, that is a great idea. Writing on the Forum can give a very detailed picture about the person’s actual interests. I suggested it via the EA Forum feature suggestion thread.
3. OK, let me take a bit of time to develop this. This can be added to the responses from the other applications. I argue for adding these in one row, maybe index matching by e-mail or other unique identifier. Rewriting responses that are edited can be taken care of by having the same fields from the original form always linked.
That makes sense, orgs should be able to add or modify questions, if anyone is bought in. The main bottleneck, in my perspective, is not enough jobs that are interesting enough for candidates who do not have their own projects in mind (for example, being an assistant of a researcher may be not so appealing to someone who wants to advance megaprojects). This can be resolved by supporting independent projects that also develop expertise (maybe ideal project question can be added) and more employee shadowing (cognizant of info hazards) (including for free or small stipend) opportunities. I could suggest this consideration when communicating with EA org employees.
Regarding modifying agreement about application steps to applying to many orgs at once and just copying the responses I agree. It is easier for everyone.
Yes, maybe the question can be whether interview responses should be included and if so, in what form. I think that full interview recordings can be biasing since the responses are tailored or pertinent to a specific job. Full interview notes can be also biasing, since they can pinpoint reasons for rejection for a particular role rather than describe general skillset. One way to ‘protect’ candidates while providing value can be adding skillset description and recommendations regarding applying to similar or different roles. So, for example, if someone fails a specific PA interview but has a PA skillset, that that is specified and further, maybe a recommendation is to ‘demonstrate ability to professionally answer many emails’ or ‘apply for a PA of a farm animal welfare researcher.’
Note you can copy from one Google Sheet to another one automatically with a formula
+1 !
“let me take a bit of time to develop this” : I assume you don’t mean software development (?) this is all built in. Here’s my idea for MVP questions, ALL ARE OPTIONAL (yes, all)
Name
EA Forum link
Email
(Other preferred communication instead of email)
linkedin
CV (upload)
Other links
Interested in (professional domain) [multi select]
Software engineering
Operations
...
Other [free text]
Cause areas I’d be happy to work on [multi select]
Global poverty
EA Meta
...
I don’t care, anything EA aligned
Other [free text]
Orgs I’d like to work at [multi select]
Official EA orgs
Orgs recommended by 80k
Orgs where at least one founder took the founders’ pledge
Other [free text]
Other notes you’d like orgs to read when they consider contacting you
Thank you for the useful tip on importrange.
Yes, I mean to use maybe a Google Form. Ah hah, it makes sense that all can be optional (name, sure) but even no way of contacting the candidate can be possible (maybe just writing in the form—hm here is where digital people enter haha).
Ok, what about some interview-like questions, such as
Describe a time you were resolving an important problem.
What are you currently working on improving and what should you be?
How do you go about prioritization at work?
Describe a time you received or gave feedback. How did you feel?
How would you summarize your unique skillset?
How did you became interested in applying for the employment that you are specifying?
What is your role in a team? What should it be?
Or, questions relevant to the specific candidate’s preferences
What would an ideal employment look like for you?
Describe a collaborative working arrangement that you especially like or dislike.
What offers would you likely turn down?
Or, something that shows the applicants’ interests more broadly, such as
What is an article that you recently read? What do you think about it?
What article did you change your mind about? How?
What course did you take but realized that is irrelevant to what you want to do?
Axiological, moral value, and risk attitude questions can add information on the candidate’s fit, such as
How would you negotiate between scientific progress and wellbeing research of entities that do not contribute to progress, under scarce resources?
When is the Repugnant or Sadistic Conclusion (Population axiology, Greaves, 2017) permissible? Find a situation.
In his “All animals are equal,” Peter Singer argues that “Equal consideration for different beings may lead to different treatment and different rights.” How can this go optimally and badly?
When would you friends describe you as risk-averse or risk-seeking? How would you feel about their description?
10. orgs multiselect: for non-EA orgs (recommended by 80k), it can be interesting to just copy general interest app fields and then (if it would not constitute a reputational loss risk for the applicant) paste the responses and see what happens. Founders Pledge orgs make sense—have not thought of these.
Maybe I can go through some applications of EA-related orgs, Funds, 80k orgs, Founders Pledge ventures, opportunities relevant to Probably Good profiles, etc to synthesize questions.
A few maybe-blind-spots:
EAs often don’t apply because the application forms are too long
In impact colabs, sometimes people don’t even fill in our form, and they schedule a talk with me instead
Also, “eyes on the ball”:
The top priority bottle neck that I am trying to solve is “letting EA orgs contact candidates”.
All the other questions more or less help filter down candidates.
If you help EA orgs filter candidates at the cost of “scaring away” some candidates because of a too long form—then I think you are probably making a mistake, or at least I would think very hard before doing it.
Note that I haven’t heard from EA orgs that they get too many candidates and need help filtering them down. So this falls into “solving a problem that may not exist”.
I do think/hope that asking what general profession the person wants to work in would not deter too many people (especially since I offer checkboxes). I do admit, though, that I am not confident that even asking for a CV/linkedin is a good idea since candidates are often nervous about it (but I decided yes to include it by default)
OK, there should be a minimal option (e. g. just upload a CV)
I could be interested in speaking with people, maybe I can test via a Calendly link for a test period (speaking can still be the most efficient)
eyes on the ball: after speaking with people, they have to fill out the form?
There should be the option to just link a CV. After, people could answer more questions or schedule a call.
Ok, so getting people upload a CV may be key.
Oh, well, they have to upload something. They can always update or delete it and will not be penalized for any earlier uploads as these are overwritten. Maybe asking about priorities that they think progress should be made in can provide similar information to what they want to make progress in but make people less nervous.
I talk to many EAs (especially devs) who are considering applying to orgs and I can tell you for sure that there are all sorts of other problems (including ones not in the link maybe) that could be solved by making it easier and less scary to apply.
I actually think I never talked to someone who didn’t have at least one project in mind that they’d be excited to join (but perhaps I’m forgetting something. Anyway it’s at least rare)
Edit: Something that does happen often is that a person thinks that no exciting EA project exists, but then I tell them about such a project that they haven’t yet considered
Yes, there should be enough actually interesting opportunities (for developers) ranging from AI safety research and increasing NGO, impact sector, and public infrastructure efficiencies to developing products that apply safety principles, communicating with hardware manufacturers, informing AI strategy and policy, or upskilling in an area that they have not explored and pivoting. It should not be scary to apply, management by fear reduces thriving.
From the link/your writing, feedback of a candidate who rejected an offer can be also valuable. General support with CV writing can be valuable, as long as it highlights candidates’ unique background and identities rather than standardizes the documents.
What is the percentage of people interested in something who applied for funding and who tried to find someone interested in a similar project, as an estimate?
What if this recommendation was not done as part of a discussion but written, would people who you spoke with still be enthusiastic about the recommendations?
1.
Sorry, I didn’t understand the context, do you mean you’d want to offer these things too? (At the MVP?)
2.
Sorry, I didn’t understand this either, could you ask in different words? (or explain why you’re asking, maybe that would help me?)
3.
I publish articles after I user test them. I do have one draft article about a similar topic that has good early results but I am not yet confident in it. Here’s the link to the draft, if you’d like to look/comment (though I wouldn’t count it as a user test unless you’re somewhat looking for a job yourself, and if you’d, before reading, tell me your default plans for the next few weeks/months (so we can see if the article changed anything)).
1. I think that feedback regarding rejected offers can be valuable and low marginal effort (e. g. adding a column). Some CV writing support could be taken care of by Career Centers (that are sometimes available also to alumni). EA community members could further assist with CV specifics if they are familiar with what different (competitive) positions are looking for that the candidate can highlight. As an MVP, comments on linked docs can be used.
2. I mean, of the people who you spoke with and who had idea of a personal project
a) How many applied for EA-related funding to work on this project and how many did not?
b) What percentage tried to find someone with a similar idea in mind to work with them on the project?
I am asking to assess to what extent people with personal project ideas could be constrained by encouragement to apply for funding and by being connected with someone else. If they applied and were rejected then integrating funds can be less of a value. If they looked for collaborators but could not find any, then increasing the number of skilled people should be prioritized over recommending connections.
3. Tested. Realizing that writing can motivate engagement/action.
I’m pretty sure this is wrong. If it was so easy, orgs would already give feedback today by email or something, the problem is not the missing column.
This doesn’t sound like what I’d call an MVP (unless this was the entire project), but I will stop trying to convince you about this by default
Eh, I don’t have a good “feel” for this. I encourage people to apply to funding when it seems relevant. Applying for funding does seem at least somewhat scary, I know this myself too.
It is very common for people to look for a cofounder (which does not mean “someone with a similar idea”)
3. Thank you!
1. Ok, maybe actually getting sincere feedback on rejected offers seems like an additional project.
2. Ok.