There are two aspects to having more impact: giving more effectively and giving more. The GWWC pledge says something about both, but I think it is only the latter that really needs the behavioral support that you get from something like a pledge. Once people have got the idea of giving effectively, I think it is unlikely that they will stop giving effectively when they give. It’s a hard idea to unsee! But they might find it harder to keep giving as much.
So I think the most important bit is the 10%, when it comes to actually affecting people’s behavior.
That said, there is a signaling and outreach benefit to mentioning global poverty: it makes us look more credible, and a lot of people come to effective altruism via global health and poverty. I think we could have a cause-natural pledge but still make it clear that poverty is focus of the organization:
“While GWWC believes that alleviating global poverty is the best way to hero the world today, we live in hope that poverty may one day be eliminated, maybe even within our lifetimes. Hence the pledge does not oblige you to give to global poverty charities, but rather to those that you believe will best help the world. Even if you disagree with us about what the best approach is at the moment, do consider taking the pledge anyway, as we would love to have anyone who is serious about effective giving in our community.”
Once people have got the idea of giving effectively, I think it is unlikely that they will stop giving effectively when they give. It’s a hard idea to unsee!
This is a good point! Though there are probably some pledge-takers who don’t start off understanding the effectiveness thing; having the pledge mention it, and maybe link to some places to start reading up, is a good anti-illusion-of-transparency idea.
While GWWC believes that alleviating global poverty is the best way to hero the world today
I’m not sure everyone at GWWC believes that. I’m guessing this might be part of why GWWC wants a new pledge; their own object-level views are becoming more complicated, and they want their organization to reflect that complexity
we live in hope that poverty may one day be eliminated, maybe even within our lifetimes
I like this idea, but it doesn’t seem like a standard EA line of thought. I agree we can eliminate poverty, but I wouldn’t be surprised if some EAs doubt this, doubt the timeline, or think it’s less helpful to focus on than more realistic best-case scenarios.
I think your pledge sounds like it’s carrying too much baggage. Just make the pledge(s) say what they say, and don’t worry about filling them with qualifications or disclaimers.
I agree that’s a good point about it being the amount of donations that really needs the commitment device. Thanks, Michael, for that suggested paragraph. I think that’s just the right kind of sentiment.
I’m guessing this might be part of why GWWC wants a new pledge; their own object-level views are becoming more complicated, and they want their organization to reflect that complexity
This is not the case. It is true that some people in GWWC think that there are other ways to help the world which are even more effective than donating SCI or AMF, and others who think that it is difficult to know what the most effective way to help others is. This doesn’t seem to be more the case than it was when GWWC started though, and it’s certainly not the reason for the suggested pledge change. That’s why I don’t think we need to worry about the focus on poverty shifting.
some people in GWWC think that there are other ways to help the world which are even more effective than donating SCI or AMF
So you agree that when Michael said
While GWWC believes that alleviating global poverty is the best way to hero the world today
he was mistaken? Or is there a sort of ‘GWWC official view’ that not all people in GWWC believe? The latter is quite plausible, similar to Cabinet Collective Responsibility?, or the way that couples tend instinctively back each other up in public, even to the extent of glossing over their private differences.
GWWC is a somewhat large community of people, and I don’t speak on behalf of all of them. The important thing is that they are a community of people who are all committed to giving 10% of their income to the most effective organisations, and who acknowledge that those of us in the developed world are really lucky and are able to have an amazing impact on those in the developing world. Not every single member thinks that the best way to “hero the world today” is to donate to charities which alleviate the poverty of people currently living. My guess would be that the majority think that, and that a largish minority aren’t sure what the very best way to help others is.
There are two aspects to having more impact: giving more effectively and giving more. The GWWC pledge says something about both, but I think it is only the latter that really needs the behavioral support that you get from something like a pledge. Once people have got the idea of giving effectively, I think it is unlikely that they will stop giving effectively when they give. It’s a hard idea to unsee! But they might find it harder to keep giving as much.
So I think the most important bit is the 10%, when it comes to actually affecting people’s behavior.
That said, there is a signaling and outreach benefit to mentioning global poverty: it makes us look more credible, and a lot of people come to effective altruism via global health and poverty. I think we could have a cause-natural pledge but still make it clear that poverty is focus of the organization:
“While GWWC believes that alleviating global poverty is the best way to hero the world today, we live in hope that poverty may one day be eliminated, maybe even within our lifetimes. Hence the pledge does not oblige you to give to global poverty charities, but rather to those that you believe will best help the world. Even if you disagree with us about what the best approach is at the moment, do consider taking the pledge anyway, as we would love to have anyone who is serious about effective giving in our community.”
This is a good point! Though there are probably some pledge-takers who don’t start off understanding the effectiveness thing; having the pledge mention it, and maybe link to some places to start reading up, is a good anti-illusion-of-transparency idea.
I’m not sure everyone at GWWC believes that. I’m guessing this might be part of why GWWC wants a new pledge; their own object-level views are becoming more complicated, and they want their organization to reflect that complexity
I like this idea, but it doesn’t seem like a standard EA line of thought. I agree we can eliminate poverty, but I wouldn’t be surprised if some EAs doubt this, doubt the timeline, or think it’s less helpful to focus on than more realistic best-case scenarios.
I think your pledge sounds like it’s carrying too much baggage. Just make the pledge(s) say what they say, and don’t worry about filling them with qualifications or disclaimers.
I agree that’s a good point about it being the amount of donations that really needs the commitment device. Thanks, Michael, for that suggested paragraph. I think that’s just the right kind of sentiment.
This is not the case. It is true that some people in GWWC think that there are other ways to help the world which are even more effective than donating SCI or AMF, and others who think that it is difficult to know what the most effective way to help others is. This doesn’t seem to be more the case than it was when GWWC started though, and it’s certainly not the reason for the suggested pledge change. That’s why I don’t think we need to worry about the focus on poverty shifting.
So you agree that when Michael said
he was mistaken? Or is there a sort of ‘GWWC official view’ that not all people in GWWC believe? The latter is quite plausible, similar to Cabinet Collective Responsibility?, or the way that couples tend instinctively back each other up in public, even to the extent of glossing over their private differences.
GWWC is a somewhat large community of people, and I don’t speak on behalf of all of them. The important thing is that they are a community of people who are all committed to giving 10% of their income to the most effective organisations, and who acknowledge that those of us in the developed world are really lucky and are able to have an amazing impact on those in the developing world. Not every single member thinks that the best way to “hero the world today” is to donate to charities which alleviate the poverty of people currently living. My guess would be that the majority think that, and that a largish minority aren’t sure what the very best way to help others is.