There are a few things I would like to point out. And i know some of these things you have pointed out (for example you do say that pet food is made up of by-products that are not suitable for human consumption), but i would like to hear your response to these points.
Lack of scientific evidence. This article claims that vegan diets can meet all the nutritional requirements of cats, but this claim is not backed up by strong scientific evidence. While there have been some studies on vegan diets for cats, they are limited in scope and do not provide conclusive evidence that such diets are safe and healthy for cats in the long term.
Overstating the environmental impact: This article suggests that feeding cats a vegan diet would significantly reduce the amount of meat consumed, thus reducing the environmental impact of meat production. However, it overlooks the fact that the majority of meat produced for pet food is made up of by-products that are not suitable for human consumption. Therefore, the environmental impact of pet food production is not as significant as this article suggests.
Ignoring the natural diet of cats: While it is possible to create nutritionally complete vegan diets for cats, it goes against their natural diet as obligate carnivores. A vegan diet may not provide all the nutrients that cats need, which could lead to health problems in the long term. And i know you have responded to this comment, however you seem to be neglecting the fact that cat’s evolved to specifically eat meat. This comes back to the lack of scientific evidence as well, and we do not know the long term impacts of changing their diets. And i would just like to say that herbivores themselves eat small amounts of meat from time to time, and so if herbivores, which evolved to get the absolute most out of plants, need to eat meat sometimes, what will that say about transitioning carnivores to meat?
Overlooking animal welfare concerns: This article argues that feeding cats a vegan diet would reduce the number of animals killed for pet food production, but it overlooks the potential negative impact on the welfare of cats. Some cats may not be able to digest a vegan diet properly, leading to digestive issues and other health problems. Which again, leads to the lack of evidence on this topic.
Disregarding personal choice: This article suggests that humans should make domestic cats vegan, but it ignores the fact that cat owners may have different beliefs and preferences when it comes to feeding their pets. It is important to respect personal choice and allow cat owners to make informed decisions about what to feed their pets.
Hi, I am hoping to politely contest part of your third point—I believe it contains a factually incorrect claim.
’And i would just like to say that herbivores themselves eat small amounts of meat from time to time, and so if herbivores, which evolved to get the absolute most out of plants, need to eat meat sometimes, what will that say about transitioning carnivores to meat?
You are correct that some larger herbivores do sometimes eat smaller animals, but this occurs rarely and to my knowledge only in an opportunistic fashion. However a) this is not a common behaviour and b) it is in no shape or form essential for a herbivore’s well-being.
Herbivores have evolved an amazing digestive tract to acquire all their needs from plant matter. Opportunistic carnivorous behaviour is simply an advantageous behaviour for getting a bit of extra protein and nutrients, not a requirement for a healthy life. For instance, a wild ruminant may acquire a small, but useful survival advantage by munching on some ground laying bird’s eggs or even their live chicks when the ruminant happens to encounter them. But as I’ve mentioned this is not essential, nor particularly common. The ruminant can acquire all their nutritional needs through plant matter—their specialised anatomy, bacteria in their digestive tracts and well evolved metabolic pathways enabling them to do so.
Your claim applies even less so for herbivorous pets because humans can (and should!) ensure their pet’s diet contains everything they need for good wellbeing. Although, sadly I accept that many pet owners fail to do this.
Evolution-based, appeal to nature arguments aren’t good. As I suggested in the post, please see the first chapter of After Meat which discusses in detail. Key points: (1) Evolution doesn’t select for optimal health; it selects for propagation. What cats evolved on versus what they need today are different. (2) Nutrient deficiencies are one of the easiest things to measure. Measure vitals and look for what’s depleted. (3) There’s nothing magical about meat. We know how metabolism and biochemistry works, so for meat to essential, there would need to be essential nutrients that are only found in meat. That has not be found after decades of research.
Vegan diets for cats will constantly develop and be iterated. Again, we should continue to make better and better formulations. We can get to something that cats prefer versus meat and that’s more healthy for them.
This is not how ethics work. If someone has a personal choice to eat meat unnecessarily, I wouldn’t say that’s a decision to be respected. Once we get to a world where there are convenient vegan cat food options that promote better health for cats, it’d be unethical to stick with meat-based options.
There are a few things I would like to point out. And i know some of these things you have pointed out (for example you do say that pet food is made up of by-products that are not suitable for human consumption), but i would like to hear your response to these points.
Lack of scientific evidence. This article claims that vegan diets can meet all the nutritional requirements of cats, but this claim is not backed up by strong scientific evidence. While there have been some studies on vegan diets for cats, they are limited in scope and do not provide conclusive evidence that such diets are safe and healthy for cats in the long term.
Overstating the environmental impact: This article suggests that feeding cats a vegan diet would significantly reduce the amount of meat consumed, thus reducing the environmental impact of meat production. However, it overlooks the fact that the majority of meat produced for pet food is made up of by-products that are not suitable for human consumption. Therefore, the environmental impact of pet food production is not as significant as this article suggests.
Ignoring the natural diet of cats: While it is possible to create nutritionally complete vegan diets for cats, it goes against their natural diet as obligate carnivores. A vegan diet may not provide all the nutrients that cats need, which could lead to health problems in the long term. And i know you have responded to this comment, however you seem to be neglecting the fact that cat’s evolved to specifically eat meat. This comes back to the lack of scientific evidence as well, and we do not know the long term impacts of changing their diets. And i would just like to say that herbivores themselves eat small amounts of meat from time to time, and so if herbivores, which evolved to get the absolute most out of plants, need to eat meat sometimes, what will that say about transitioning carnivores to meat?
Overlooking animal welfare concerns: This article argues that feeding cats a vegan diet would reduce the number of animals killed for pet food production, but it overlooks the potential negative impact on the welfare of cats. Some cats may not be able to digest a vegan diet properly, leading to digestive issues and other health problems. Which again, leads to the lack of evidence on this topic.
Disregarding personal choice: This article suggests that humans should make domestic cats vegan, but it ignores the fact that cat owners may have different beliefs and preferences when it comes to feeding their pets. It is important to respect personal choice and allow cat owners to make informed decisions about what to feed their pets.
Hi, I am hoping to politely contest part of your third point—I believe it contains a factually incorrect claim.
You are correct that some larger herbivores do sometimes eat smaller animals, but this occurs rarely and to my knowledge only in an opportunistic fashion. However a) this is not a common behaviour and b) it is in no shape or form essential for a herbivore’s well-being.
Herbivores have evolved an amazing digestive tract to acquire all their needs from plant matter. Opportunistic carnivorous behaviour is simply an advantageous behaviour for getting a bit of extra protein and nutrients, not a requirement for a healthy life. For instance, a wild ruminant may acquire a small, but useful survival advantage by munching on some ground laying bird’s eggs or even their live chicks when the ruminant happens to encounter them. But as I’ve mentioned this is not essential, nor particularly common. The ruminant can acquire all their nutritional needs through plant matter—their specialised anatomy, bacteria in their digestive tracts and well evolved metabolic pathways enabling them to do so.
Your claim applies even less so for herbivorous pets because humans can (and should!) ensure their pet’s diet contains everything they need for good wellbeing. Although, sadly I accept that many pet owners fail to do this.
Yes, I agree that we need more studies and more science here. The limitation is funding. I am campaigning for that.
Another comment brought up a similar point, see https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/AFPXXepkgitbvTtpH/getting-cats-vegan-is-possible-and-imperative?commentId=yM9hvEHYHwJnZ7PfM
Evolution-based, appeal to nature arguments aren’t good. As I suggested in the post, please see the first chapter of After Meat which discusses in detail. Key points: (1) Evolution doesn’t select for optimal health; it selects for propagation. What cats evolved on versus what they need today are different. (2) Nutrient deficiencies are one of the easiest things to measure. Measure vitals and look for what’s depleted. (3) There’s nothing magical about meat. We know how metabolism and biochemistry works, so for meat to essential, there would need to be essential nutrients that are only found in meat. That has not be found after decades of research.
Vegan diets for cats will constantly develop and be iterated. Again, we should continue to make better and better formulations. We can get to something that cats prefer versus meat and that’s more healthy for them.
This is not how ethics work. If someone has a personal choice to eat meat unnecessarily, I wouldn’t say that’s a decision to be respected. Once we get to a world where there are convenient vegan cat food options that promote better health for cats, it’d be unethical to stick with meat-based options.