I have never had a nightmare that bad, I it must be terrible to have them frequently. I feel like my nightmares are like a stubbed toe (I get one every few years, it sucks, and then I get over it) while yours are… well: really bad.
I think that my main concerns at this point are about intensity and frequency of nightmares. Not all nightmares are equally intense, right? Maybe 85% of people have occasional nightmares of low impact/intensity, and 0.001% of people have occasional nightmares of high impact/intensity (such as what you describe from your own experience).
Is nightmare intensity inversely related to frequency in the population? My assumption is that most people have occasional nightmares, but within 60 seconds of waking up these people can get on with their day. I’d want to see more information about intensity and frequency of nightmares before endorsing.
What about the existing medical system? In a developed country are there treatments/interventions that a person can get? If I go to a doctor and describe terrible nightmares, will I be referred to a sleep specialist who will give me what I need to solve the problem?
It seems similar to saying that “physical health” is important. That statement is true, but there is a vast variety in the types of physical health ailments that people suffer from. Preventing different specific issues would need different interventions, which would have different cost-benefit ratios.
I agree that not all nightmares are equally intense. But I bet it’s more than your suggested 0.001% of people that occasionally have really awful ones.
I just did a quick Reddit search and found severallongthreads with hundreds of comments where people describe awful nightmares they’ve had. Examples:
“Had one where my skin was falling off and I kept trying to keep it on by sewing it.”
“I dreamed that I was a young Harry Potter and found out that Voldemort was trying to kill me every night by cooking me (as if the bed were a stovetop)”
”I dreamt that I fell off a cliff and slamed onto the ground. That was scary, but usually falling/dying wakes me up. This time I kept dreaming as a ghost after I had died.”
What about the existing medical system? In a developed country are there treatments/interventions that a person can get? If I go to a doctor and describe terrible nightmares, will I be referred to a sleep specialist who will give me what I need to solve the problem?
As discussed in other comments and in the ACT post, there does seem to be some promising pharmaceutical treatments, but they have not-so-great side effects.
I forgot to mention that I know a lot of people who regularly consume THC/cannabis who say that they no longer even dream, and so they don’t have nightmares either. Maybe that’s something to explore further for people who are really struggling with nightmares.
It seems similar to saying that “physical health” is important. That statement is true, but there is a vast variety in the types of physical health ailments that people suffer from. Preventing different specific issues would need different interventions, which would have different cost-benefit ratios.
I don’t think I agree, assuming I understand your argument. If we’re taking the worst nightmares, I see seeking treatment to be more akin to going to a doctor and saying, “I have really bad low back pain.” The medical systems isn’t great at addressing nightmares or low back pain, but both are very common and make up their own category of thing.
(also sorry for the bolded quoting, every time I try to quote it puts all text in a quote and I can’t figure out a better solution right now)
The cannabis claim you made sounded interesting to me since I have heard comparable stories. However there are usually quite a bit of unbacked myths circulated so I did some (shallow) research.
Thesetwo sites did mention the phenomena of weed use reducing or even eliminating dreams, however they both reported users experiencing extra vivid dreams whenever they stop their (heavy) cannabis use.
This paper could be used as tentative evidence that higher dosage CBD might also repress REM sleep. CBD being the non psychoactive component of cannabis it is usually legal and easy to access.
A literature review did find that THC use has been proven to help with nightmares suffered by those with PTSD. It also mentioned that during withdrawal more vivid dreams were found in one study, and that overall sleep is more disturbed. One study found that this disturbed sleep reduced REM sleep, which should also reduce dreams. However, another found an increase in REM sleep.
I hope to have been of at least some service. Feedback welcome
The likelihood of having a strong rebound effect when stopping THC use seems really bad, thanks for pointing it out. There’s definitely a lot to explore in this area.
I think it would be interesting to see statistics on this. Some examples could be: What frequency of people suffer from nightmares? How do they rate it on an intensity scale? What’s the proportion for whom nightmares affect their everyday living? Are there DALYs associated with nightmares (probably such data won’t be available, but it could be interesting to explore)?
The data might come from either current studies or from future ones that you/others might want to conduct.
Quick thoughts:
I like how novel this idea is.
I have never had a nightmare that bad, I it must be terrible to have them frequently. I feel like my nightmares are like a stubbed toe (I get one every few years, it sucks, and then I get over it) while yours are… well: really bad.
I think that my main concerns at this point are about intensity and frequency of nightmares. Not all nightmares are equally intense, right? Maybe 85% of people have occasional nightmares of low impact/intensity, and 0.001% of people have occasional nightmares of high impact/intensity (such as what you describe from your own experience).
Is nightmare intensity inversely related to frequency in the population? My assumption is that most people have occasional nightmares, but within 60 seconds of waking up these people can get on with their day. I’d want to see more information about intensity and frequency of nightmares before endorsing.
What about the existing medical system? In a developed country are there treatments/interventions that a person can get? If I go to a doctor and describe terrible nightmares, will I be referred to a sleep specialist who will give me what I need to solve the problem?
It seems similar to saying that “physical health” is important. That statement is true, but there is a vast variety in the types of physical health ailments that people suffer from. Preventing different specific issues would need different interventions, which would have different cost-benefit ratios.
First off, thanks!
I agree that not all nightmares are equally intense. But I bet it’s more than your suggested 0.001% of people that occasionally have really awful ones.
I just did a quick Reddit search and found several long threads with hundreds of comments where people describe awful nightmares they’ve had. Examples:
“Had one where my skin was falling off and I kept trying to keep it on by sewing it.”
“I dreamed that I was a young Harry Potter and found out that Voldemort was trying to kill me every night by cooking me (as if the bed were a stovetop)”
”I dreamt that I fell off a cliff and slamed onto the ground. That was scary, but usually falling/dying wakes me up. This time I kept dreaming as a ghost after I had died.”
What about the existing medical system? In a developed country are there treatments/interventions that a person can get? If I go to a doctor and describe terrible nightmares, will I be referred to a sleep specialist who will give me what I need to solve the problem?
As discussed in other comments and in the ACT post, there does seem to be some promising pharmaceutical treatments, but they have not-so-great side effects.
I forgot to mention that I know a lot of people who regularly consume THC/cannabis who say that they no longer even dream, and so they don’t have nightmares either. Maybe that’s something to explore further for people who are really struggling with nightmares.
It seems similar to saying that “physical health” is important. That statement is true, but there is a vast variety in the types of physical health ailments that people suffer from. Preventing different specific issues would need different interventions, which would have different cost-benefit ratios.
I don’t think I agree, assuming I understand your argument. If we’re taking the worst nightmares, I see seeking treatment to be more akin to going to a doctor and saying, “I have really bad low back pain.” The medical systems isn’t great at addressing nightmares or low back pain, but both are very common and make up their own category of thing.
(also sorry for the bolded quoting, every time I try to quote it puts all text in a quote and I can’t figure out a better solution right now)
The cannabis claim you made sounded interesting to me since I have heard comparable stories.
However there are usually quite a bit of unbacked myths circulated so I did some (shallow) research.
These two sites did mention the phenomena of weed use reducing or even eliminating dreams, however they both reported users experiencing extra vivid dreams whenever they stop their (heavy) cannabis use.
This paper could be used as tentative evidence that higher dosage CBD might also repress REM sleep. CBD being the non psychoactive component of cannabis it is usually legal and easy to access.
A literature review did find that THC use has been proven to help with nightmares suffered by those with PTSD. It also mentioned that during withdrawal more vivid dreams were found in one study, and that overall sleep is more disturbed.
One study found that this disturbed sleep reduced REM sleep, which should also reduce dreams.
However, another found an increase in REM sleep.
I hope to have been of at least some service.
Feedback welcome
The likelihood of having a strong rebound effect when stopping THC use seems really bad, thanks for pointing it out. There’s definitely a lot to explore in this area.
I think it would be interesting to see statistics on this. Some examples could be: What frequency of people suffer from nightmares? How do they rate it on an intensity scale? What’s the proportion for whom nightmares affect their everyday living? Are there DALYs associated with nightmares (probably such data won’t be available, but it could be interesting to explore)?
The data might come from either current studies or from future ones that you/others might want to conduct.