There is nobody you, or any other EA, are ‘supposed’ to like. Apologies if I’m over-interpreting what’s meant to be a turn of phrase, but I really want to push back on the idea that to be an EA you have to like specific people in the movement. Our movement is about the ideas it generates, not the people who generate them.[1] This is not to say that you can’t admire or like certain people, I definitely do! But liking them is not a requirement in any sense to be a part of the movement, or at least it shouldn’t be.
Make disagreements more visible and more legible, especially among leaders or experts.
I definitely agree with this. It’s prima facie obvious that senior EAs won’t align 100% with each other on every philosophical issue, and that’ s ok. I think the Redwood/Anthropic idea is another good one. In general I think adversarial collaboration might be a good route to pursue is some cases—I know not everyone in the community is a fan of them but I feel like at the margin the Forum may benefit from a few more of them.
I also co-sign Mathias’s post, that many of the [redacted] claims could probably be re-framed as object level concerns. But I also don’t think you should be shy of saying you disagree with a point-of-view, and disagree with a high-level EA who holds that view, as long as you do so in good faith. A case in point, one of my favourite 80k podcast episodes is the blockbuster one with David Chalmers, but listening to ‘Vulcan Trolley Problem’ section I came away with the impression that David was spot on, and Rob’s point of view (both Wiblin in this one, and Long in the recent one) wasn’t that tenable in comparison. But my disagreement there is really an object level one, it doesn’t prevent me from appreciating the podcast any less.
Clarification: obviously people matter! I mean this in the sense that anyone should be able to come up with good ideas in EA, regardless of background, hierarchy, seniority etc.
There is nobody you, or any other EA, are ‘supposed’ to like. Apologies if I’m over-interpreting what’s meant to be a turn of phrase, but I really want to push back on the idea that to be an EA you have to like specific people in the movement. Our movement is about the ideas it generates, not the people who generate them.[1] This is not to say that you can’t admire or like certain people, I definitely do! But liking them is not a requirement in any sense to be a part of the movement, or at least it shouldn’t be.
I definitely agree with this. It’s prima facie obvious that senior EAs won’t align 100% with each other on every philosophical issue, and that’ s ok. I think the Redwood/Anthropic idea is another good one. In general I think adversarial collaboration might be a good route to pursue is some cases—I know not everyone in the community is a fan of them but I feel like at the margin the Forum may benefit from a few more of them.
I also co-sign Mathias’s post, that many of the [redacted] claims could probably be re-framed as object level concerns. But I also don’t think you should be shy of saying you disagree with a point-of-view, and disagree with a high-level EA who holds that view, as long as you do so in good faith. A case in point, one of my favourite 80k podcast episodes is the blockbuster one with David Chalmers, but listening to ‘Vulcan Trolley Problem’ section I came away with the impression that David was spot on, and Rob’s point of view (both Wiblin in this one, and Long in the recent one) wasn’t that tenable in comparison. But my disagreement there is really an object level one, it doesn’t prevent me from appreciating the podcast any less.
Clarification: obviously people matter! I mean this in the sense that anyone should be able to come up with good ideas in EA, regardless of background, hierarchy, seniority etc.