Features that contribute to heated discussion on the forum
From my observations. I recognize many of these in myself. Definitely not a complete list, and possibly some of these things are not very relevant, please feel free to comment to add your own.
Interpersonal and Emotional
Fear, on all sides (according to me lots of debates are bravery debates and people on “both sides” feel in the minority and fighting against a more powerful majority (and often it’s both true, just in different ways), and this is really important for understanding the dynamics)
Political backlash
What other EAs will think of you
Just sometimes the experience of being on the forum
Trying to protect colleagues or friends
Speed as a reaction to having strong opinions, or worrying that others will jump on you
Frustration at having to rehash arguments / protect things that should go without saying
Desire to gain approval / goodwill from people you’d like to hire/fund/etc you in the future
Desire to sound smart
Desire to gain approval / goodwill from your friends, or people you respect
Pattern matching (correctly or not) to conversations you’ve had before and porting over the emotional baggage from them
Sometimes it helps to assume the people you’re talking to are still trying to win their last argument with someone else
People don’t communicate openly their takes on things.
This leads to significant misunderstanding.
This leads to distrust of each other and assumptions of poor intent.
This leads to parties doing more zero-sum or adversarial actions to each other.
When any communication does happen, it’s inspected with a magnifying glass (because of how rare it is). It’s misunderstood (because of how little communication there has been).
The communicators then think, “What’s the point? My communication is misunderstood and treated with hostility.” So they communicate less.
Not tracking being scrupulously truth-telling out of a desire to get less criticism
This is so perceptive, relevant and respectfully written, thank you.
people on “both sides” feel in the minority and fighting against a more powerful majority
I’ve noticed this too and I think another common dynamic is where “both sides” feel like the other side obviously “started it” and so feel justified in responding in kind.
I’ve also noticed in myself recently this additional layer of upset that sounds something like, “We’re supposed to be allies!” I think I need to keep reminding myself that this is just what people do, namely fight with people very much like them but a little bit different*. I think EA’s been remarkably good at avoiding much of this over the years and obviously I wish we weren’t falling prey to it quite so much right now, but I don’t think it’s a reason to feel extra upset.
*Here’s my favourite dramatisation of this phenomenon.
Thanks for sharing, I think this is a very useful overview of important factors, and I encourage you to share it as a normal post (I mostly miss shortforms like this).
Features that contribute to heated discussion on the forum
From my observations. I recognize many of these in myself. Definitely not a complete list, and possibly some of these things are not very relevant, please feel free to comment to add your own.
Interpersonal and Emotional
Fear, on all sides (according to me lots of debates are bravery debates and people on “both sides” feel in the minority and fighting against a more powerful majority (and often it’s both true, just in different ways), and this is really important for understanding the dynamics)
Political backlash
What other EAs will think of you
Just sometimes the experience of being on the forum
Trying to protect colleagues or friends
Speed as a reaction to having strong opinions, or worrying that others will jump on you
Frustration at having to rehash arguments / protect things that should go without saying
Desire to gain approval / goodwill from people you’d like to hire/fund/etc you in the future
Desire to sound smart
Desire to gain approval / goodwill from your friends, or people you respect
Pattern matching (correctly or not) to conversations you’ve had before and porting over the emotional baggage from them
Sometimes it helps to assume the people you’re talking to are still trying to win their last argument with someone else
Low trust environment
Surprise that something is even a question
I think there’s a nasty feedback loop in tense situations with low trust. (This section by Ozzie Gooen)
People don’t communicate openly their takes on things.
This leads to significant misunderstanding.
This leads to distrust of each other and assumptions of poor intent.
This leads to parties doing more zero-sum or adversarial actions to each other.
When any communication does happen, it’s inspected with a magnifying glass (because of how rare it is). It’s misunderstood (because of how little communication there has been).
The communicators then think, “What’s the point? My communication is misunderstood and treated with hostility.” So they communicate less.
Not tracking being scrupulously truth-telling out of a desire to get less criticism
Not feeling like part of the decision making process, opaqueness of the reasoning of EA leadership
Not understanding how and why decisions that affect you are made
Feeling misunderstood by the public, sometimes feeling wilfully misunderstood
Something to protect / Politics
Trying to protect a norm you think matters
Trying to protect other people you think are being treated unfairly
Trying to create the EA you want by fiat / speech actions
Power / game theoretical desires to have power shift in EA towards preferred distribution
Speed—a sense that the conversation will get away from you otherwise
Organizational politics
An interest in understanding the internals of organizations you’re not part of
An interest in not-sharing the internals of organizations you are part of
This is so perceptive, relevant and respectfully written, thank you.
I’ve noticed this too and I think another common dynamic is where “both sides” feel like the other side obviously “started it” and so feel justified in responding in kind.
I’ve also noticed in myself recently this additional layer of upset that sounds something like, “We’re supposed to be allies!” I think I need to keep reminding myself that this is just what people do, namely fight with people very much like them but a little bit different*. I think EA’s been remarkably good at avoiding much of this over the years and obviously I wish we weren’t falling prey to it quite so much right now, but I don’t think it’s a reason to feel extra upset.
*Here’s my favourite dramatisation of this phenomenon.
Thanks for sharing, I think this is a very useful overview of important factors, and I encourage you to share it as a normal post (I mostly miss shortforms like this).