I think people have misunderstood your point, Dale. I’ve read your comment a few times and it just seems like the standard “Don’t let the haters get to you, bro” pat on the back from a friend. If anything, you were being overly positive (“be proud of who you are”, “the world is full of lovely, tolerant people”)!
If I may give my take on your criticisms:
Dale is implying that Jeff is doing something wrong (by writing this article or otherwise) by saying things like “don’t let them bring you down to their level.”: How I interpreted this expression and his overall comment is that Dale isn’t criticizing something Jeff did, but is encouraging him to transcend the negatively of others and not get sucked into it going forward.
Dale is criticizing people who fight for social justice: I’m extremely surprised to see people take this angle. “Social justice warrior” is a colloquial term about people who are not actually trying to better the world, but use social justice issues as an excuse to patronize and attack others to make themselves feel superior when in reality those people never did anything wrong. Similarly, the term “vegan police,” refers to those that relish making others feel inferior for not being vegan enough and does not in any way denounce people that are legitimately trying to protect animals.
Dale assumes that Jeff wrote the article because SJW’s gave him problems: Yes, Dale explicitly states that he is making this assumption. So what? Even if the assumption is incorrect, I still think it’s sweet of Dale for trying to be supportive of Jeff.
I think you wrote a very sympathetic and supportive comment, Dale. Misunderstanding are just too easy through writing.
Hi Austen,
I support trying to make the most charitable reading possible of other’s comments, particularly when we don’t know each other well and misunderstanding is easy. However I don’t think the evidence supports your narrow definition of the term ‘social justice warrior’. I understand that some people define it this way, but it’s use is definitely not limited to that narrow conception.
For example see the entry on wikipedia under ‘social justice’:
“The term “social justice warrior” has been used to describe people who work for social justice issues, often “claiming a moral authority” and “questioning the motives and moral integrity of those they oppose”. People given as examples of social justice warriors include Mahatma Gandhi and Reverend Martin Luther King, Jr..[43] In internet culture, the term has been used as a pejorative for someone advocating for social justice issues such as racism, sexism, or homophobia. Frequently initialized as “SJW”, it is used to accuse ideological opponents of sanctimony,[44] to insinuate pretense,[45][46] and as a general purpose negative.[47][48][49] Although most commonly used to cast negative implications, some have reappropriated the term as a neutral or positive source of identity.[50][51]
Likewise, if you look at urban dictionary, the definition is strongly contested. The analogy to the phase ‘politically correct’ holds quite strong: its proponents might narrowly define it in to something most people would agree with (eg the reframing of language to avoid offence which ends up with people using unintelligible and unwieldy terms merely to demonstrate their credibility), but it’s use is frequently pejorative and used to shut down criticism (‘hey, it’s just a joke, don’t be so politically correct’)
I’d be happy to assume someone coming across the phrase for the first time might not be familiar with the way the term is actually used, but Dale implies that he is familiar with social justice dialogue, which is why I think it’s fair to point out the problematic and exclusionary implications of it here.
I understand that some people define it this way, but it’s use is definitely not limited to that narrow conception.
Yep, different people can use the same term in different ways. In this case, a charitable reading might take the focus off of the ambiguous term “social justice warrior” and look for other clues as to what Dale is trying to communicate: Dale refers to people who “give you a lot of flak for your race, gender, career success”, are “hostile”, and participate in “tweetstorms of hate”. On the other hand, you are someone who advocates people “not being dicks to each other”, which sounds totally different (and you also seem to be doing a decent job of putting this ideal in to practice). So I don’t think you need to feel excluded by Dale’s comment :)
If you don’t like Dale’s terminology, that’s cool, but you’re original comment suggested that Dale was advising Jeff to avoid anyone who advocates “not being dicks to each other.” I do not think that is accurate.
I think people have misunderstood your point, Dale. I’ve read your comment a few times and it just seems like the standard “Don’t let the haters get to you, bro” pat on the back from a friend. If anything, you were being overly positive (“be proud of who you are”, “the world is full of lovely, tolerant people”)!
If I may give my take on your criticisms:
Dale is implying that Jeff is doing something wrong (by writing this article or otherwise) by saying things like “don’t let them bring you down to their level.”: How I interpreted this expression and his overall comment is that Dale isn’t criticizing something Jeff did, but is encouraging him to transcend the negatively of others and not get sucked into it going forward.
Dale is criticizing people who fight for social justice: I’m extremely surprised to see people take this angle. “Social justice warrior” is a colloquial term about people who are not actually trying to better the world, but use social justice issues as an excuse to patronize and attack others to make themselves feel superior when in reality those people never did anything wrong. Similarly, the term “vegan police,” refers to those that relish making others feel inferior for not being vegan enough and does not in any way denounce people that are legitimately trying to protect animals.
Dale assumes that Jeff wrote the article because SJW’s gave him problems: Yes, Dale explicitly states that he is making this assumption. So what? Even if the assumption is incorrect, I still think it’s sweet of Dale for trying to be supportive of Jeff.
I think you wrote a very sympathetic and supportive comment, Dale. Misunderstanding are just too easy through writing.
Thankyou.
Hi Austen, I support trying to make the most charitable reading possible of other’s comments, particularly when we don’t know each other well and misunderstanding is easy. However I don’t think the evidence supports your narrow definition of the term ‘social justice warrior’. I understand that some people define it this way, but it’s use is definitely not limited to that narrow conception. For example see the entry on wikipedia under ‘social justice’:
“The term “social justice warrior” has been used to describe people who work for social justice issues, often “claiming a moral authority” and “questioning the motives and moral integrity of those they oppose”. People given as examples of social justice warriors include Mahatma Gandhi and Reverend Martin Luther King, Jr..[43] In internet culture, the term has been used as a pejorative for someone advocating for social justice issues such as racism, sexism, or homophobia. Frequently initialized as “SJW”, it is used to accuse ideological opponents of sanctimony,[44] to insinuate pretense,[45][46] and as a general purpose negative.[47][48][49] Although most commonly used to cast negative implications, some have reappropriated the term as a neutral or positive source of identity.[50][51]
Likewise, if you look at urban dictionary, the definition is strongly contested. The analogy to the phase ‘politically correct’ holds quite strong: its proponents might narrowly define it in to something most people would agree with (eg the reframing of language to avoid offence which ends up with people using unintelligible and unwieldy terms merely to demonstrate their credibility), but it’s use is frequently pejorative and used to shut down criticism (‘hey, it’s just a joke, don’t be so politically correct’)
I’d be happy to assume someone coming across the phrase for the first time might not be familiar with the way the term is actually used, but Dale implies that he is familiar with social justice dialogue, which is why I think it’s fair to point out the problematic and exclusionary implications of it here.
Yep, different people can use the same term in different ways. In this case, a charitable reading might take the focus off of the ambiguous term “social justice warrior” and look for other clues as to what Dale is trying to communicate: Dale refers to people who “give you a lot of flak for your race, gender, career success”, are “hostile”, and participate in “tweetstorms of hate”. On the other hand, you are someone who advocates people “not being dicks to each other”, which sounds totally different (and you also seem to be doing a decent job of putting this ideal in to practice). So I don’t think you need to feel excluded by Dale’s comment :)
If you don’t like Dale’s terminology, that’s cool, but you’re original comment suggested that Dale was advising Jeff to avoid anyone who advocates “not being dicks to each other.” I do not think that is accurate.