I think there’s some interesting points here! A few reactions:
• I don’t think advocates of traditional diversity are primarily concerned with cognitive diversity. I think the reasoning is more (if altruistic) to combat discrimination/bigotry or (if self-interested) good PR/a larger pool of applicants to choose from.
• I think in some of the areas that EAs have homogeneity it’s bad (eg it’s bad that we lack traditional diversity, it’s bad that we lack so much geographic diversity, it’s bad that we have so much homogeneity of mannerisms, it’s bad that certain intellectual traditions like neoliberalism or the Pinkerian progress narrative are overwhelmingly fashionable in EA, etc), but I’d actually push back against the claim that it’s bad that we have such a strong consequentialist bent (this just seems to go so hand-in-hand with EA—one doesn’t have to be a consequentialist to want to improve the external world as much as possible, but I’d imagine there’s a strong tendency for that) or that we lack representation of certain political leanings (eg I wouldn’t want people in the alt-right in EA).
• If people don’t feel comfortable going against the grain and voicing opposition, I’d agree that’s bad because we’d lack ability to self-correct (though fwiw my personal impression is that EA is far better on this metric than almost all other subcultures or movements).
• It’s not clear to me that hierarchy/centralization is bad—there are certain times when I think we err too much on this side, but then I think others where we err too much the other way. If we had significantly less centralization, I’d have legitimate concerns about coordination, info-hazards, branding, and evaluating quality of approaches/organizations.
• I agree that some of the discussion about intelligence is somewhat cringe, but it seems to me that we’ve gotten better on that metric over time, not worse.
• Agree that the fandom culture is… not a good feature of EA
• There probably are some feedback loops here as you mention, but there are other mechanisms going the other direction. It’s not clear to me that the situation is getting worse and we’re headed for “locking in” unfortunate dynamics, and if anything I think we’ve actually mostly improved on these factors over time (and, crucially, my inside view is that we’ve improved our course-correction ability over time).
Yeah for what it’s worth, I think it’ll be very very very bad if we treat all moral views as equivalent. There’s a trivial sense in which you can flip the sign of any ethical position and still have a consistent framework!
it’s bad that we have so much homogeneity of mannerisms
Why? Mannerisms reduce communication overhead. If the norm within EA is to sometimes bob our heads up and down and sometimes shake our heads left and right to signal “yes”, this seems like a large recipe of misunderstanding, with dubious benefits. As it is, I’m not convinced that equivocating between British and American English definitions of the sameword gives us much expanded perspective commensurate with the costs.
If you agree that having mannerisms that equivocate between different macro-cultures isn’t super valuable, I’d like to understand why having mannerisms that equivocate between different micro-cultures is great. I find quite a few mannerisms common to EA (and more specific than AngloAmerican macroculture) to be valuable to reducing communication overhead, including but not limited to:
Saying numeric probabilities
Making bets
Certain types of jargon
General push towards quantification
Non-interrupting physical gestures of agreement during a group conversation (though I’ve also seen it in slam poetry groups, so certainly not unique to us!)
I think there’s some interesting points here! A few reactions:
• I don’t think advocates of traditional diversity are primarily concerned with cognitive diversity. I think the reasoning is more (if altruistic) to combat discrimination/bigotry or (if self-interested) good PR/a larger pool of applicants to choose from.
• I think in some of the areas that EAs have homogeneity it’s bad (eg it’s bad that we lack traditional diversity, it’s bad that we lack so much geographic diversity, it’s bad that we have so much homogeneity of mannerisms, it’s bad that certain intellectual traditions like neoliberalism or the Pinkerian progress narrative are overwhelmingly fashionable in EA, etc), but I’d actually push back against the claim that it’s bad that we have such a strong consequentialist bent (this just seems to go so hand-in-hand with EA—one doesn’t have to be a consequentialist to want to improve the external world as much as possible, but I’d imagine there’s a strong tendency for that) or that we lack representation of certain political leanings (eg I wouldn’t want people in the alt-right in EA).
• If people don’t feel comfortable going against the grain and voicing opposition, I’d agree that’s bad because we’d lack ability to self-correct (though fwiw my personal impression is that EA is far better on this metric than almost all other subcultures or movements).
• It’s not clear to me that hierarchy/centralization is bad—there are certain times when I think we err too much on this side, but then I think others where we err too much the other way. If we had significantly less centralization, I’d have legitimate concerns about coordination, info-hazards, branding, and evaluating quality of approaches/organizations.
• I agree that some of the discussion about intelligence is somewhat cringe, but it seems to me that we’ve gotten better on that metric over time, not worse.
• Agree that the fandom culture is… not a good feature of EA
• There probably are some feedback loops here as you mention, but there are other mechanisms going the other direction. It’s not clear to me that the situation is getting worse and we’re headed for “locking in” unfortunate dynamics, and if anything I think we’ve actually mostly improved on these factors over time (and, crucially, my inside view is that we’ve improved our course-correction ability over time).
Yeah for what it’s worth, I think it’ll be very very very bad if we treat all moral views as equivalent. There’s a trivial sense in which you can flip the sign of any ethical position and still have a consistent framework!
Why? Mannerisms reduce communication overhead. If the norm within EA is to sometimes bob our heads up and down and sometimes shake our heads left and right to signal “yes”, this seems like a large recipe of misunderstanding, with dubious benefits. As it is, I’m not convinced that equivocating between British and American English definitions of the same word gives us much expanded perspective commensurate with the costs.
If you agree that having mannerisms that equivocate between different macro-cultures isn’t super valuable, I’d like to understand why having mannerisms that equivocate between different micro-cultures is great. I find quite a few mannerisms common to EA (and more specific than AngloAmerican macroculture) to be valuable to reducing communication overhead, including but not limited to:
Saying numeric probabilities
Making bets
Certain types of jargon
General push towards quantification
Non-interrupting physical gestures of agreement during a group conversation (though I’ve also seen it in slam poetry groups, so certainly not unique to us!)
“Yet. Growth mindset!”