I wonder if anyone here can help me with my university course choice? I’m between two minds trying to choose an undergraduate degree—I think I’m going to pick either a finance course, with an aim towards earning to give, or a more humanities-focused course—philosophy, politics, economics and sociology. The latter is at a more prestigious university, and is apparently a fairly well respected degree among employers, but doesn’t show the same clear route to effective altruism that finance does, though I would imagine it is reasonably strong in terms of advocacy potential, especially if I pursue politics or journalism. It’s also a broader course and lets me keep my options open until I figure out what I want to do. I’d describe my abilities as fairly well-rounded—I would say I’d perform reasonably well in finance if I could sustain interest, as I do like maths and do well at it. Can anybody offer any input? I’ll include the links to the courses below.
Could you do something more quantitative at Trinity? Generally more hard and quantitative keeps your options open better i.e. maths keeps your options open better than economics, and that keeps your options open better than finance.
I’d focus on options open more than prep for earning to give at this stage, however, if you were going for earning to give, then quantitative subjects like statistics, applied maths, engineering, and physics are also associated with the highest earnings. Though finance can be fine too.
I see that at Trinity you could also do pure economics, or you could do maths and economics or maths and philosophy. Maths and philosophy can be a great option if you’re into it. From our recent profile:
In our view, philosophy is a good subject to study at undergraduate level if it’s taken in combination with a quantitative subject, like maths, computer science, or economics, because it teaches you how to write clearly, how to think clearly, and because certain issues in moral philosophy seem to us to be crucial in determining how to live your life. It’s a weaker all-purpose qualification than quantitative subjects, so we’d encourage undergraduates not to single-major in philosophy if they have the option of also majoring in a quantitative subject.
i.e. you can get both writing skills and quantitative skills, learn about important topics in the humanities, and get an impressive general purpose qualification.
I think the fame of the university you go to is worth putting some weight on, though it’s a tricky issue. So, in general I’d say Trinity.
Finally, don’t forget personal fit. Don’t take a course you think you’ll be bad at or really won’t enjoy!
I should also say that even just from the perspective of maximising earnings, finance may not be ideal, since it doesn’t keep your options open as much. If the finance sector shrinks (which doesn’t seem unlikely) then the qualification may end up being less useful than it seems.
Broader applied maths skills don’t have that problem.
Sounds hard to decide. Have you any idea what kind of advocacy or research you’d want to do? Do you think many people go into finance from the ppes degree?
I think financial math would be pretty interesting and would give you some cool technical skill. Another Q: what do people who are familiar with the universities day about them?
Thanks for the reply! I don’t know just yet what kind of advocacy I’d be doing—I would hope to figure that out as I went along. Maybe that’s a point against PPES, but maybe even being an effective-altruism-minded public figure of any sort would do some good? The PPES degree is only a few years old so there’s no real data on where people end up, but similar degrees at York and Oxford list finance among a broad range of commonly chosen careers (http://www.ppe.ox.ac.uk/index.php/a-future-with-ppe) (https://www.york.ac.uk/pep/graduate-profiles/). I suppose this would make PPES the broader option, allowing me to change direction later on. Do you feel that this characteristic is more valuable than speeding up my entry into a potentially high-impact position?
Regarding the universities, all the students I’ve talked to in both seem to love their respective universities, but Trinity is ranked higher and is much better known internationally.
Oxford PPE → Banking is a very well trodden route.
I would definitely choose Trinity over the other. Trinity is respected; the other is a no-name. I expect you would find it easier getting into finance with PPES from Trinity than Finance from the other place.
It will be easier to get a job in almost any sector with a degree from Trinity rather than a degree from Galway (particularly outside Ireland), you will probably meet more interesting/driven people there, and you can try to make your PPES degree more quantitative if you want through particular choices (eg the econometrics option in third year economics or quantitative methods in fourth year economics), although it is certainly too early to be making specific choices about modules at this stage!
As others have said, it will also keep your options broader, which is valuable for all of us but particularly those of us who are still trying to work out what we are particularly good at.
Getting into finance, at least high-end finance, from a relatively unknown university is hard. I don’t think it’s an exaggeration to say that you woud have to network very hard or have something else on your CV that will catch a recruiter’s attention. Given that, and without knowing that much detail about PPES, my starting guess is that it would actually be easier to break into banking from PPES at Trinity than from finance at a comparatively unknown university. Since the Trinity course seems better for almost any other option you might pursue, that gives it something like ‘full spectrum dominance’ in my mind.
Separate to that, it sounds like you have a fairly balanced skillset and no standout interests that you want to turn into a career. I think you should strongly prioritise keeping your options open, give your interests and abilities another few years to develop, and then hopefully you’ll have a better idea of what route you want to go down.
I prize being around the best people as pretty important. Seems like the finance degree is mostly better for finance so it might be interesting to watch some online finance courses to think about whether it’s something you want to commit to. It’d also be interesting to think about whether you get any good electives in the ppes.
I wonder if anyone here can help me with my university course choice? I’m between two minds trying to choose an undergraduate degree—I think I’m going to pick either a finance course, with an aim towards earning to give, or a more humanities-focused course—philosophy, politics, economics and sociology. The latter is at a more prestigious university, and is apparently a fairly well respected degree among employers, but doesn’t show the same clear route to effective altruism that finance does, though I would imagine it is reasonably strong in terms of advocacy potential, especially if I pursue politics or journalism. It’s also a broader course and lets me keep my options open until I figure out what I want to do. I’d describe my abilities as fairly well-rounded—I would say I’d perform reasonably well in finance if I could sustain interest, as I do like maths and do well at it. Can anybody offer any input? I’ll include the links to the courses below.
http://www.nuigalway.ie/science/undergraduate-courses/financial-mathematics-and-economics.html https://www.tcd.ie/courses/ppes/
Could you do something more quantitative at Trinity? Generally more hard and quantitative keeps your options open better i.e. maths keeps your options open better than economics, and that keeps your options open better than finance.
I’d focus on options open more than prep for earning to give at this stage, however, if you were going for earning to give, then quantitative subjects like statistics, applied maths, engineering, and physics are also associated with the highest earnings. Though finance can be fine too.
I see that at Trinity you could also do pure economics, or you could do maths and economics or maths and philosophy. Maths and philosophy can be a great option if you’re into it. From our recent profile:
https://80000hours.org/career-guide/top-careers/profiles/philosophy-phd/
i.e. you can get both writing skills and quantitative skills, learn about important topics in the humanities, and get an impressive general purpose qualification.
I think the fame of the university you go to is worth putting some weight on, though it’s a tricky issue. So, in general I’d say Trinity.
Finally, don’t forget personal fit. Don’t take a course you think you’ll be bad at or really won’t enjoy!
Some more thoughts here: https://80000hours.org/2013/11/summary-of-our-thoughts-on-how-to-pick-a-degree/
I should also say that even just from the perspective of maximising earnings, finance may not be ideal, since it doesn’t keep your options open as much. If the finance sector shrinks (which doesn’t seem unlikely) then the qualification may end up being less useful than it seems.
Broader applied maths skills don’t have that problem.
Sounds hard to decide. Have you any idea what kind of advocacy or research you’d want to do? Do you think many people go into finance from the ppes degree? I think financial math would be pretty interesting and would give you some cool technical skill. Another Q: what do people who are familiar with the universities day about them?
Thanks for the reply! I don’t know just yet what kind of advocacy I’d be doing—I would hope to figure that out as I went along. Maybe that’s a point against PPES, but maybe even being an effective-altruism-minded public figure of any sort would do some good? The PPES degree is only a few years old so there’s no real data on where people end up, but similar degrees at York and Oxford list finance among a broad range of commonly chosen careers (http://www.ppe.ox.ac.uk/index.php/a-future-with-ppe) (https://www.york.ac.uk/pep/graduate-profiles/). I suppose this would make PPES the broader option, allowing me to change direction later on. Do you feel that this characteristic is more valuable than speeding up my entry into a potentially high-impact position?
Regarding the universities, all the students I’ve talked to in both seem to love their respective universities, but Trinity is ranked higher and is much better known internationally.
Oxford PPE → Banking is a very well trodden route.
I would definitely choose Trinity over the other. Trinity is respected; the other is a no-name. I expect you would find it easier getting into finance with PPES from Trinity than Finance from the other place.
Strongly urge Trinity.
It will be easier to get a job in almost any sector with a degree from Trinity rather than a degree from Galway (particularly outside Ireland), you will probably meet more interesting/driven people there, and you can try to make your PPES degree more quantitative if you want through particular choices (eg the econometrics option in third year economics or quantitative methods in fourth year economics), although it is certainly too early to be making specific choices about modules at this stage!
As others have said, it will also keep your options broader, which is valuable for all of us but particularly those of us who are still trying to work out what we are particularly good at.
Getting into finance, at least high-end finance, from a relatively unknown university is hard. I don’t think it’s an exaggeration to say that you woud have to network very hard or have something else on your CV that will catch a recruiter’s attention. Given that, and without knowing that much detail about PPES, my starting guess is that it would actually be easier to break into banking from PPES at Trinity than from finance at a comparatively unknown university. Since the Trinity course seems better for almost any other option you might pursue, that gives it something like ‘full spectrum dominance’ in my mind.
Separate to that, it sounds like you have a fairly balanced skillset and no standout interests that you want to turn into a career. I think you should strongly prioritise keeping your options open, give your interests and abilities another few years to develop, and then hopefully you’ll have a better idea of what route you want to go down.
I prize being around the best people as pretty important. Seems like the finance degree is mostly better for finance so it might be interesting to watch some online finance courses to think about whether it’s something you want to commit to. It’d also be interesting to think about whether you get any good electives in the ppes.