Thanks! I broadly agree with this, think this is a useful and well-written post, and have already shared it with two people who I think will find it useful.
But I have two criticisms/quibbles, one specific and one more general. I’ll put them in separate comments.
General quibble: Many parts of this post feel like they’re just about whether editing Wikipedia is better than doing nothing, doing what non-EAs tend to do, or doing something not at all optimised for EA goals, rather than whether editing Wikipedia is better than relatively obvious alternative ways readers of this post could spend their time. E.g.:
Yes, Wikipedia editing may well be better for learning than passive methods like re-reading and highlighting, but the post doesn’t mention that there are also many other things better than passive methods, and doesn’t try to compare Wikipedia against those. E.g. making Anki cards, writing Forum posts summarising the material, doing an online course rather than just reading, participating in a research training program like SERI.
Even if Wikipedia editing histories would be looked on favourably by employers (see my specific quibble for commentary), how does that compare to using the same time on an online course, blog post writing, practicing whatever skills the job requires, running events for a local group, doing forecasting, doing an internship, etc.?
I think it makes sense that this post can’t carefullycompare Wikipedia editing against all such alternatives. And it could be that Wikipedia editing is a “second best” option for many goals and therefore often first best overall, or something. But (at least when listening to the Nonlinear Library podcast version of this) it felt like the post was sometimes saying “Wikipedia is good for X, therefore if you want X you should strongly consider editing Wikipedia”, even when I could quickly think of 5 things that might be better for X that weren’t mentioned. And that then feels to me a bit misleading / not ideal.
(Again, I liked the post overall and have already shared it with people. This is meant as constructive criticism rather than as a smackdown. I feel like for some reason the tone above is harsher than I really mean—not sure why it’s coming out that way—so apologies if it indeed comes across that way :) )
Thanks for this comment, Michael! I agree with all the points you make and should have been more careful to compare Wikipedia editing against the alternatives (I began doing this in an earlier draft of this post and then cut it because it became unwieldy).
In my experience, few EAs I’ve talked to have ever seriously considered Wikipedia editing. Therefore, my main objective with this post was to get more people to recognize it as one option of something valuable they might do with a part of their time; I wasn’t trying to argue that Wikipedia editing is the best use of their time, which depends a lot on individual circumstances and preferences.
In fact, I’d expect the opportunity costs for many people in the community to be too high to make Wikipedia editing worth their while, but I’d leave that judgment up to them. That said, some people (like me) will find Wikipedia editing sufficiently enjoyable that it becomes more of a fun hobby and doesn’t compete much with other productive uses of their time.
Specific quibble: I’m skeptical that the following claim is true to a noteworthy degree, and (due tot that) feel that it was a bit odd that the claim was made without reasoning/evidence being provided:
Wikipedia user profiles are publicly visible and can be linked to a real person—for instance, by making your real name your user name or by adding relevant details about you to your Wikipedia user page. You could then add your Wikipedia profile to a CV or on LinkedIn. Depending on your profession, potential employers may be impressed by a good Wikipedia track record (this likely includes most EA organisations) .
Was this based on conversations with any employers? Obviously employers may be impressed by this, but they also may be impressed by all sorts of other things, and I’d guess this’d be less impressive both to most EA orgs and to most non-EA orgs than various other things people could do with the same amount of time. That’s in line with the following thing that you note elsewhere (and which I agree with):
Wikipedia is a global public good (i.e. it is non-rivalrous, non-excludable, and available everywhere). Consequently, Wikipedia editing is likely undersupplied relative to the socially optimal level. A key reason for this is that the incentives to edit Wikipedia are insufficient: [...] (iii) in most (but not all) social contexts, you are likely to get less credit for Wikipedia editing than for more traditional activities (such as writing a book, blog posts, or insightful social media posts).
Also, I think many (most?) employers will just pay much less attention to any prior experience than to how well a candidate does in work tests, interviews, and/or work trials.
Thanks, it’s valuable to hear your more skeptical view on this point! I’ve included it after several reviewers of my post brought it up and still think it was probably worth including as one of several potential self-interested benefits of Wikipedia editing.
I was mainly trying to draw attention to the fact that it is possible to link a Wikipedia user account to a real person and that it is worth considering whether to include it in certain applications (something I’ve done in previous applications). I still think Wikipedia editing is a decent signal of pro-social motivation, experience engaging with specific topics, and of some writing practice. Thus, it seems comparable to me to a personal blog, which you may also include, where relevant, in certain applications as evidence for these things.
Thanks! I broadly agree with this, think this is a useful and well-written post, and have already shared it with two people who I think will find it useful.
But I have two criticisms/quibbles, one specific and one more general. I’ll put them in separate comments.
General quibble: Many parts of this post feel like they’re just about whether editing Wikipedia is better than doing nothing, doing what non-EAs tend to do, or doing something not at all optimised for EA goals, rather than whether editing Wikipedia is better than relatively obvious alternative ways readers of this post could spend their time. E.g.:
Yes, Wikipedia editing may well be better for learning than passive methods like re-reading and highlighting, but the post doesn’t mention that there are also many other things better than passive methods, and doesn’t try to compare Wikipedia against those. E.g. making Anki cards, writing Forum posts summarising the material, doing an online course rather than just reading, participating in a research training program like SERI.
Even if Wikipedia editing histories would be looked on favourably by employers (see my specific quibble for commentary), how does that compare to using the same time on an online course, blog post writing, practicing whatever skills the job requires, running events for a local group, doing forecasting, doing an internship, etc.?
I think it makes sense that this post can’t carefully compare Wikipedia editing against all such alternatives. And it could be that Wikipedia editing is a “second best” option for many goals and therefore often first best overall, or something. But (at least when listening to the Nonlinear Library podcast version of this) it felt like the post was sometimes saying “Wikipedia is good for X, therefore if you want X you should strongly consider editing Wikipedia”, even when I could quickly think of 5 things that might be better for X that weren’t mentioned. And that then feels to me a bit misleading / not ideal.
(Again, I liked the post overall and have already shared it with people. This is meant as constructive criticism rather than as a smackdown. I feel like for some reason the tone above is harsher than I really mean—not sure why it’s coming out that way—so apologies if it indeed comes across that way :) )
Thanks for this comment, Michael! I agree with all the points you make and should have been more careful to compare Wikipedia editing against the alternatives (I began doing this in an earlier draft of this post and then cut it because it became unwieldy).
In my experience, few EAs I’ve talked to have ever seriously considered Wikipedia editing. Therefore, my main objective with this post was to get more people to recognize it as one option of something valuable they might do with a part of their time; I wasn’t trying to argue that Wikipedia editing is the best use of their time, which depends a lot on individual circumstances and preferences.
In fact, I’d expect the opportunity costs for many people in the community to be too high to make Wikipedia editing worth their while, but I’d leave that judgment up to them. That said, some people (like me) will find Wikipedia editing sufficiently enjoyable that it becomes more of a fun hobby and doesn’t compete much with other productive uses of their time.
Specific quibble: I’m skeptical that the following claim is true to a noteworthy degree, and (due tot that) feel that it was a bit odd that the claim was made without reasoning/evidence being provided:
Was this based on conversations with any employers? Obviously employers may be impressed by this, but they also may be impressed by all sorts of other things, and I’d guess this’d be less impressive both to most EA orgs and to most non-EA orgs than various other things people could do with the same amount of time. That’s in line with the following thing that you note elsewhere (and which I agree with):
Also, I think many (most?) employers will just pay much less attention to any prior experience than to how well a candidate does in work tests, interviews, and/or work trials.
Thanks, it’s valuable to hear your more skeptical view on this point! I’ve included it after several reviewers of my post brought it up and still think it was probably worth including as one of several potential self-interested benefits of Wikipedia editing.
I was mainly trying to draw attention to the fact that it is possible to link a Wikipedia user account to a real person and that it is worth considering whether to include it in certain applications (something I’ve done in previous applications). I still think Wikipedia editing is a decent signal of pro-social motivation, experience engaging with specific topics, and of some writing practice. Thus, it seems comparable to me to a personal blog, which you may also include, where relevant, in certain applications as evidence for these things.