(3) I didn’t do a detailed look at every row in the “Short summary overview table”, but for the ones I did look into in more detail, I found Nonlinear’s counter evidence to be compelling. That table is organized by claim and is in an easy-to-navigate structure, so I suggest people take a look for themselves at the evidence Nonlinear provided regarding whatever claims they think are important.
I would have loved to hear in your own words the most important claims that you think have been rebutted, and why you think so. When I look through the appendix document, I see a tangle of screenshots; mildly to moderately related points about these screenshots; and subjective claims about the ex-employees’ personal dispositions. I am not sure if this is because nonlinear is highly dysfunctional, or whether this is practicing a “[...] see what sticks” strategy.
Taking two important claims from Ben’s post. (1) Chloe wasn’t paid what she was promised (2) The employees were asked to transport drugs across a border.
(1) The first thing any union employee, HR person, or employment lawyer will ask: Was there a contract and what does it say?
When I come away from reading the appendix, I am unable to answer this, and my followup question remains also unanswered.
(2) The screenshots and related claims are even more confusing in this case. I’m left with the impression that it was pretty common for the nonlinear team to make these kinds of requests, including to “load up” on antibiotics. This is a pretty strange professional culture, from my perspective. So whilst I can see that the screenshot does not mention any recreational drugs, it’s not updating me negatively towards the likeliness of the claim.
Also, a quick legal note: it’s necessarily legal to fly with drugs, even if you purchased them legitimately. Buying drugs without a prescription in Mexico, and flying them to the US where you require a prescription, would be a crime.
Edit: it looks to me like the Mexican government is trying to shut down illegal pharmacies that dispense these kinds of medications without prescriptions. So they likely would have been both illegal to purchase in Mexico and illegal to import into the US.
If you don’t, update based on that, I’m not sure what to say. She knowingly and clearly lied, despite knowing that we had a work contract and interview transcripts showing this. Please consider that you shouldn’t trust somebody who has provably lied to you and the community multiple times.
For #2, you are saying you’re worried about a people who want to buy antibiotics? We travel all the time and it’s often hard to interact with local medical systems since we don’t speak the language. And I get frequent UTIs (if you must know), and very frequently end up being in pain for days because it’s hard to navigate a new medical system where I don’t speak the language, so it just seems pretty good to be prepared and travel with some antibiotics, just in case.
The link you share isn’t saying that pharmacies are illegal, it’s saying that they sometimes sell counterfeit drugs, and that’s illegal. It’s not related to this situation.
Lastly, we thought since she was getting a single pack in a country where it was legal, it was very unlikely that anything would happen traveling with that. I googled it, asked ChatGPT to search for it, and asked a lawyer friend of mine if they’ve ever heard of somebody being arrested for traveling with a single pack of ADHD medicine without a prescription. Nothing showed up (except for going to a place like Japan with famously strict laws around that).
Think about it. The number of people who take ADHD medication who travel with their medicine without remembering to bring their prescription is massive, and you never hear about anybody getting in trouble for it. They’re not looking for people with ADHD who just forgot to bring their prescription. They’re looking for smugglers.
This is all moot though: she went and got herself a prescription. Also, once again, she was travelling with genuinely illegal recreational drugs on both flights for herself. I am very surprised you don’t consider this point to be extremely relevant here.
The whole point Ben was making was that “they were convinced to take actions that could have had severe personal downsides such as jail time in a foreign country, and that these are actions that they confidently believe they would not have taken had it not been due to the strong pressures they felt from the Nonlinear cofounders”.
We didn’t pressure her—we just asked, and when she said she needed a perscription, we said to forget about it. And she would have done it anyways—and did. With her own genuinely illegal recreational drugs. She actually kept half of the ADHD medicine for herself.
Can I confirm I am seeing the correct image. I see a screenshot of a google document. As oppose to contract signed by both parties. Would you be able to confirm this contract was signed by both parties?
The link you share isn’t saying that pharmacies are illegal, it’s saying that they sometimes sell counterfeit drugs, and that’s illegal.
It indeed looks like the article I linked was related to counterfeit drugs, and not necessarily dispensing drugs without prescription. Although, I still suspect the reason adderall is accessible in tourist areas, is not related to their inherent legality, but instead some of the themes this article. I will research this further and make edits below.
I googled it, asked ChatGPT to search for it, and asked a lawyer friend of mine if they’ve ever heard of somebody being arrested for traveling with a single pack of ADHD medicine without a prescription. Nothing showed up (except for going to a place like Japan with famously strict laws around that).
If I understand these complaints to have been made in 2021, ChatGPT was launched in Nov 2022. Is it possible you are mistaken here?
If I understand you correctly, you were aware that by asking your employee to bring drugs across the border, she would be committing a crime?
I would have loved to hear in your own words the most important claims that you think have been rebutted, and why you think so. When I look through the appendix document, I see a tangle of screenshots; mildly to moderately related points about these screenshots; and subjective claims about the ex-employees’ personal dispositions. I am not sure if this is because nonlinear is highly dysfunctional, or whether this is practicing a “[...] see what sticks” strategy.
Taking two important claims from Ben’s post. (1) Chloe wasn’t paid what she was promised (2) The employees were asked to transport drugs across a border.
(1) The first thing any union employee, HR person, or employment lawyer will ask: Was there a contract and what does it say?
When I come away from reading the appendix, I am unable to answer this, and my followup question remains also unanswered.
(2) The screenshots and related claims are even more confusing in this case. I’m left with the impression that it was pretty common for the nonlinear team to make these kinds of requests, including to “load up” on antibiotics. This is a pretty strange professional culture, from my perspective. So whilst I can see that the screenshot does not mention any recreational drugs, it’s not updating me negatively towards the likeliness of the claim.
Also, a quick legal note: it’s necessarily legal to fly with drugs, even if you purchased them legitimately. Buying drugs without a prescription in Mexico, and flying them to the US where you require a prescription, would be a crime.
Edit: it looks to me like the Mexican government is trying to shut down illegal pharmacies that dispense these kinds of medications without prescriptions. So they likely would have been both illegal to purchase in Mexico and illegal to import into the US.
We show Chloe’s work contract in the third row of the very first table. We also link to interview transcripts showing that we paid her exactly what she was promised. This is a clear example of Chloe lying.
If you don’t, update based on that, I’m not sure what to say. She knowingly and clearly lied, despite knowing that we had a work contract and interview transcripts showing this. Please consider that you shouldn’t trust somebody who has provably lied to you and the community multiple times.
For #2, you are saying you’re worried about a people who want to buy antibiotics? We travel all the time and it’s often hard to interact with local medical systems since we don’t speak the language. And I get frequent UTIs (if you must know), and very frequently end up being in pain for days because it’s hard to navigate a new medical system where I don’t speak the language, so it just seems pretty good to be prepared and travel with some antibiotics, just in case.
The link you share isn’t saying that pharmacies are illegal, it’s saying that they sometimes sell counterfeit drugs, and that’s illegal. It’s not related to this situation.
Lastly, we thought since she was getting a single pack in a country where it was legal, it was very unlikely that anything would happen traveling with that. I googled it, asked ChatGPT to search for it, and asked a lawyer friend of mine if they’ve ever heard of somebody being arrested for traveling with a single pack of ADHD medicine without a prescription. Nothing showed up (except for going to a place like Japan with famously strict laws around that).
Think about it. The number of people who take ADHD medication who travel with their medicine without remembering to bring their prescription is massive, and you never hear about anybody getting in trouble for it. They’re not looking for people with ADHD who just forgot to bring their prescription. They’re looking for smugglers.
This is all moot though: she went and got herself a prescription. Also, once again, she was travelling with genuinely illegal recreational drugs on both flights for herself. I am very surprised you don’t consider this point to be extremely relevant here.
The whole point Ben was making was that “they were convinced to take actions that could have had severe personal downsides such as jail time in a foreign country, and that these are actions that they confidently believe they would not have taken had it not been due to the strong pressures they felt from the Nonlinear cofounders”.
We didn’t pressure her—we just asked, and when she said she needed a perscription, we said to forget about it. And she would have done it anyways—and did. With her own genuinely illegal recreational drugs. She actually kept half of the ADHD medicine for herself.
Can I confirm I am seeing the correct image. I see a screenshot of a google document. As oppose to contract signed by both parties. Would you be able to confirm this contract was signed by both parties?
It indeed looks like the article I linked was related to counterfeit drugs, and not necessarily dispensing drugs without prescription. Although, I still suspect the reason adderall is accessible in tourist areas, is not related to their inherent legality, but instead some of the themes this article. I will research this further and make edits below.
If I understand these complaints to have been made in 2021, ChatGPT was launched in Nov 2022. Is it possible you are mistaken here?
If I understand you correctly, you were aware that by asking your employee to bring drugs across the border, she would be committing a crime?