There also can be a significant difference between mere physical pain and actual suffering that leads to PTSD. It may be true mammals/birds can get traumatized, but few animals really reach the PTSD-levels of intense suffering (or lived resentment) that an elephant can experience after the death of all of its family members, or that an orca feels after its baby dies and it holds its young in its snout for days
[fwiw, elephants seem to be one of the only animals that becomes aware of persecution at a population-level—crows might be another example—these are animals that can distinguish between groups of people who endanger them and groups of people who are safe]
Similarly, larger parrots (as distinct from the smaller parrots, which also aren’t seen as “behaviorally complex” as african greys or cockatoos) self-mutilate themselves when left alone by themselves w/o stimulation- cockatoos have even been called “velcro birds” due to their tendency to stick to the person they bond the most with. This could be evidence for a kind of suffering that less behaviorally complex birds don’t have [though we really don’t know what it is to have most birds as pets—anecdotally, I heard that crows/ravens might have similar tendencies]
Fwiw, I have a friend (from qualia computing institute) who wagered that “putting a sperm whale on MDMA” might be the most intense qualia that any animal can experience.
Many animals seem to lack the ability to deliberately redirect their attention and focus away from valenced experiences, and this inability may increase the intensity of the experiences. James Yeates speculates that “animals more able to divide attention would experience pain of lower intensity (because the attention is divided)” (Yeates 2012: 29). Sahar Akhtar concurs, writing, “The facts, if they are facts, that many animals do not have many substitutes for focusing on their pain and cannot will themselves to focus on other things, cannot form expectations about the ending of pain, think about other times without pain, or consider more complex interests for which pain may be a necessary means, provide us with reasons for thinking that the overall pain experience caused by a given measure of pain might sometimes be worse for animals than it is for us” (Akhtar 2011: 509).
Although Yeates and Akhtar appear to base their reasoning on a priori considerations, there is at least modest empirical evidence to support their position. Cognitive inhibition is the ability to disregard stimuli that are irrelevant to the task at hand. Recent research suggests that, in humans, “a higher level of cognitive inhibition is associated with lower experimental pain sensitivity” (Bjekić et al. 2018: 580). Hence, it appears that humans that are better able to consciously redirect their focus also suffer characteristically less intense pains.[^66]
THIS quote is interesting—it reminds me of animals that are unable to disengage attention from their loss once they lose their mate (some self-mutilate to the point of unintentional suicide), and it also reminds me of parrots that are unable to disengage their attention from the person they’re most attached to when away (eg it was so discomfiting for one raven that it held the person’s finger in its mouth for a LONG time when away).
Birds may feel for others (have empathy) and even console them, may have a sense of justice, may show deep affection for their partner and grieve for their loss. I witnessed the mate of a fatally injured tawny frogmouth not moving from the spot next to its dead partner for three days, and then dying on the fourth.
There also can be a significant difference between mere physical pain and actual suffering that leads to PTSD. It may be true mammals/birds can get traumatized, but few animals really reach the PTSD-levels of intense suffering (or lived resentment) that an elephant can experience after the death of all of its family members, or that an orca feels after its baby dies and it holds its young in its snout for days
[fwiw, elephants seem to be one of the only animals that becomes aware of persecution at a population-level—crows might be another example—these are animals that can distinguish between groups of people who endanger them and groups of people who are safe]
Similarly, larger parrots (as distinct from the smaller parrots, which also aren’t seen as “behaviorally complex” as african greys or cockatoos) self-mutilate themselves when left alone by themselves w/o stimulation- cockatoos have even been called “velcro birds” due to their tendency to stick to the person they bond the most with. This could be evidence for a kind of suffering that less behaviorally complex birds don’t have [though we really don’t know what it is to have most birds as pets—anecdotally, I heard that crows/ravens might have similar tendencies]
Fwiw, I have a friend (from qualia computing institute) who wagered that “putting a sperm whale on MDMA” might be the most intense qualia that any animal can experience.
THIS quote is interesting—it reminds me of animals that are unable to disengage attention from their loss once they lose their mate (some self-mutilate to the point of unintentional suicide), and it also reminds me of parrots that are unable to disengage their attention from the person they’re most attached to when away (eg it was so discomfiting for one raven that it held the person’s finger in its mouth for a LONG time when away).
eg (from https://theconversation.com/laughs-cries-and-deception-birds-emotional-lives-are-just-as-complicated-as-ours-69471 )