Hi Catherine, thank you for clarifying what measures were taken regarding each instance reported in the TIME article and for directly addressing each point.
Regarding my previous post, here’s more context from a previous discussion on why I haven’t yet involved CEA’s Health team: https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/sD4kdobiRaBpxcL8M/what-happened-to-the-women-and-effective-altruism-post?commentId=MxJqDoNTqLxkPthzy I’ll probably share more thoughts, especially regarding why I spoke to TIME, women-friendly culture updates a movement can take and more perspectives when time permits me to think more clearly about this topic and write them down. Obviously, SA is a high stress discussion; a lot of context is lost in translation and in medium of communication; people can misrepresent/misinterpret; people also have jobs and other commitments; but I’m hoping we will have more clarity over time/ update to a better state overall as a society given enough time.
Meanwhile, I’d like more clarification on one matter. I’m one of those people who connected Charlotte, the author of the TIME article with the curious case of the Aurora Quinn Elmore, an unofficial SA mediator who interviews people via facebook and recommends actions for accused and accuser in EA-adjacent/rationalist communities in the bay. This person was introduced to the EA-adjacent group house situation by an active EA (out of good intentions/ lack of awareness I think, it was a high stress situation and all sides were acting sub-optimally) and it was told to me that this EA got the idea of involving the mediator from her work of mediating SA cases at CFAR or Center For Applied Rationality. I was told that this person has mediated at least 5+ SA cases as far as this EA knows, and probably more. Can you verify this information? How many cases has she mediated in totality? Why is CFAR with millions in funding using an unofficial individual (who is a PM in her day job) with no formal training in / affiliation to women’s organizations to arbitrate SA cases? Some women who have had their situations arbitrated by this mediator have told me that they faced retaliation for speaking up, that they were informed of a “no-gossip policy”, ie, if the mediator has arbitrated the case and ruled in favor of an accused and if the accuser then speaks about the case to her friends or others, she will face consequences up to and including career consequences and being removed from communities. Can someone from CFAR share more context/data? Thank you.
Thanks Keerthana. I’m afraid I don’t know anything about CFAR’s processes. It might be worth you reaching out to CFAR directly: contact@rationality.org.
I look forward to reading your > women-friendly culture updates a movement can take If and when you choose to share.
I understand that CEA doesn’t have any special insight into CFAR’s decision to use Aurora Quinn Elmore for mediation. But I’d guess CEA has quite a lot of information about CFAR including non-public info, and that other EAs could benefit from knowing at least the gist of this. If someone was considering attending CFAR programming (or working for CFAR) and asked the community health team if there were any concerns they should know about, what would you tell them? Has the community health team received complaints about CFAR aside from the Brent incident, and if so, how many? Does the community health team have any concerns about CFAR soliciting attendees via the EA Forum?
CFAR’s use of Aurora for mediation is part of a pattern of highly questionable policies and decision-making. I’m sure CEA is aware of the utter debacle around CFAR’s mistakes regarding Brent and their failure to safeguard a minor (among other mistakes) in that situation. There has been discussion of other issues as well, not all related to sexuality, but many related to troubling power dynamics. As one EA put it :
CFAR’s track record includes a litany of awful mistakes re. welfare and safeguarding where each taken alone would typically warrant suspension or disqualification, and in concert should guarantee the latter as it demonstrates—rather than (e.g.) “grave mistake which is an aberration from their usually excellent standards”—a pattern of gross negligence and utter corporate incompetence. Whatever degree of intermediate risk attending these workshops constitute is unwise to accept (or to encourage others accepting), given CFAR realising these risks is already well-established.
When a community builder who was asked for recommendations of people who might like to attend a CFAR workshop wisely inquired “what safeguards, if any, are now in place to avoid similar situations in the future”, she received no response. CFAR’s co-founder and President has acknowledged that “adults should indeed not expect that we are vetting a particularly careful or safe environment particularly reliably” and that “many bad mistakes were made, then [at the time of the Brent incident] and previously and afterwards.” Does the community health team consider these to be red flags (especially given CFAR’s track record of problems)? If not, why not?
Despite any downvotes (which I anticipated), I think this is an important issue and I hope the community health team responds. And FWIW I’m open to the idea that their response could make me feel less concerned about CFAR than I currently do.
Hi Catherine, thank you for clarifying what measures were taken regarding each instance reported in the TIME article and for directly addressing each point.
Regarding my previous post, here’s more context from a previous discussion on why I haven’t yet involved CEA’s Health team: https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/sD4kdobiRaBpxcL8M/what-happened-to-the-women-and-effective-altruism-post?commentId=MxJqDoNTqLxkPthzy I’ll probably share more thoughts, especially regarding why I spoke to TIME, women-friendly culture updates a movement can take and more perspectives when time permits me to think more clearly about this topic and write them down. Obviously, SA is a high stress discussion; a lot of context is lost in translation and in medium of communication; people can misrepresent/misinterpret; people also have jobs and other commitments; but I’m hoping we will have more clarity over time/ update to a better state overall as a society given enough time.
Meanwhile, I’d like more clarification on one matter. I’m one of those people who connected Charlotte, the author of the TIME article with the curious case of the Aurora Quinn Elmore, an unofficial SA mediator who interviews people via facebook and recommends actions for accused and accuser in EA-adjacent/rationalist communities in the bay. This person was introduced to the EA-adjacent group house situation by an active EA (out of good intentions/ lack of awareness I think, it was a high stress situation and all sides were acting sub-optimally) and it was told to me that this EA got the idea of involving the mediator from her work of mediating SA cases at CFAR or Center For Applied Rationality. I was told that this person has mediated at least 5+ SA cases as far as this EA knows, and probably more. Can you verify this information? How many cases has she mediated in totality? Why is CFAR with millions in funding using an unofficial individual (who is a PM in her day job) with no formal training in / affiliation to women’s organizations to arbitrate SA cases? Some women who have had their situations arbitrated by this mediator have told me that they faced retaliation for speaking up, that they were informed of a “no-gossip policy”, ie, if the mediator has arbitrated the case and ruled in favor of an accused and if the accuser then speaks about the case to her friends or others, she will face consequences up to and including career consequences and being removed from communities. Can someone from CFAR share more context/data? Thank you.
Thanks Keerthana. I’m afraid I don’t know anything about CFAR’s processes. It might be worth you reaching out to CFAR directly: contact@rationality.org.
I look forward to reading your
> women-friendly culture updates a movement can take
If and when you choose to share.
I understand that CEA doesn’t have any special insight into CFAR’s decision to use Aurora Quinn Elmore for mediation. But I’d guess CEA has quite a lot of information about CFAR including non-public info, and that other EAs could benefit from knowing at least the gist of this. If someone was considering attending CFAR programming (or working for CFAR) and asked the community health team if there were any concerns they should know about, what would you tell them? Has the community health team received complaints about CFAR aside from the Brent incident, and if so, how many? Does the community health team have any concerns about CFAR soliciting attendees via the EA Forum?
CFAR’s use of Aurora for mediation is part of a pattern of highly questionable policies and decision-making. I’m sure CEA is aware of the utter debacle around CFAR’s mistakes regarding Brent and their failure to safeguard a minor (among other mistakes) in that situation. There has been discussion of other issues as well, not all related to sexuality, but many related to troubling power dynamics. As one EA put it :
When a community builder who was asked for recommendations of people who might like to attend a CFAR workshop wisely inquired “what safeguards, if any, are now in place to avoid similar situations in the future”, she received no response. CFAR’s co-founder and President has acknowledged that “adults should indeed not expect that we are vetting a particularly careful or safe environment particularly reliably” and that “many bad mistakes were made, then [at the time of the Brent incident] and previously and afterwards.” Does the community health team consider these to be red flags (especially given CFAR’s track record of problems)? If not, why not?
It’s a bad sign that you were being downvoted! I gave you my upvote!
Thanks Anthony, I appreciate the support!
Despite any downvotes (which I anticipated), I think this is an important issue and I hope the community health team responds. And FWIW I’m open to the idea that their response could make me feel less concerned about CFAR than I currently do.
+1 :)