We (the Community Health team at CEA) would like to share some more information about the cases in the TIME article, and our previous knowledge of these cases. Weâve put these comments in the approximate order that they appear in the TIME article.
Re: Gopalakrishnanâs experiences
We read her post with concern. We saw quite a few supportive messages from community members, and we also tried to offer support. Our team also reached out to Gopalakrishnan in a direct message to ask if she was interested in sharing more information with us about the specific incidents.
Re: The man who
Expressed opinions about âpedophilic relationshipsâ
âAnother woman, who dated the same man several years earlier in a polyamorous relationship, alleges that he had once attempted to put his penis in her mouth while she was sleeping.â
We donât know this personâs identity for sure, but one of these accounts resembles a previous public accusation made against a person who used to be involved in the rationality community. He has been banned from CEA events for almost 5 years, and we understand he has been banned from some other EA spaces. He has been a critic of the EA movement for some time.
We were aware of the second allegation and were in contact with the woman. We did not know about the first allegation until recently.
Re: Masturbation comment
Time magazine described it as âAfter that leader arranged for her to be flown to the U.K. for a job interview, she recalls being surprised to discover that she was expected to stay in his home, not a hotel. When she arrived, she says, âhe told me he needed to masturbate before seeing me.ââ
We know lots of people are particularly concerned about this, which makes sense. Our understanding is that more information will be forthcoming, and we hope to be able to say more about it next week.
Re: Rochelle Shen âsays she has firsthand experience of the ways the movement dismisses allegations. âThey want to keep it all in the family.ââ
As far as we know, we hadnât interacted with Shen at the time this was written. We donât have a complete picture of how others in the community have handled allegations that have come to them. In general, the community health team encourages people to consider all their options for handling a problem, including getting legal advice if they think a crime may have happened.
Re: The Bay Area House
The TIME article describes the house as âroughly a third of the residents were EAs, and the house regularly hosted EA events.â We were aware of the existence of this house after some concerns were raised about a year ago. We werenât aware of EA events hosted in the house, but it is common for people in the EA community to invite other community members around to their houses.
Re: âmale co-leader of the house was accused of sexual misconduct by an ex-girlfriend who says she met him at an EA conferenceâ
Community Health became aware of concerns about this person about a year ago. He had been to an EA Global conference around 5 years ago, and we decided not to admit him to any future CEA-run events. We reached out to the accuser asking if we could help.
Re: âthe other residents of the house started a Google Doc to collectively discuss how to handle them.â
Community Health was not aware of this document or the process in the house generally.
Re: âan EA living in the house suggested bringing in a mediator named Aurora Quinn-Elmoreâ
Community Health has not referred people to Quinn-Elmore. She last attended an EA conference around 5 years ago.
Re: âa much older EA recruited her to join his polyamorous relationship while she was still in collegeâ
To our knowledge, we donât know about this specific situation
Re: Man who âasked how old she was, she recalls, then quickly suggested she join his polyamorous relationship. Shortly after agreeing to date him, âHe told me that âI could sleep with you on Monday,â but on Tuesday Iâm with this other girl,â
To our knowledge, we donât know about this specific situation.
Re: other concerns raised in the comments section
A commenter wrote that they had heard some very serious allegations. They later removed their own comments about this.
We were aware of one of these situations and had already taken action to ban the accused from CEA events (although the accused doesnât seem to have been involved with the EA community in some time).
Some of the other situations this commenter referred to were not ones we had heard about, and did not contain enough information for us to identify the situation or learn more. We have asked the commenter for more information. If anyone has specific information about these or other problems in the community, our door is very much open.
âŚâŚ.
If you have more information about these cases, or other situations of harassment or abuse in the EA community, we would really like to help.
Hi Catherine, thank you for clarifying what measures were taken regarding each instance reported in the TIME article and for directly addressing each point.
Regarding my previous post, hereâs more context from a previous discussion on why I havenât yet involved CEAâs Health team: https://ââforum.effectivealtruism.org/ââposts/ââsD4kdobiRaBpxcL8M/ââwhat-happened-to-the-women-and-effective-altruism-post?commentId=MxJqDoNTqLxkPthzy Iâll probably share more thoughts, especially regarding why I spoke to TIME, women-friendly culture updates a movement can take and more perspectives when time permits me to think more clearly about this topic and write them down. Obviously, SA is a high stress discussion; a lot of context is lost in translation and in medium of communication; people can misrepresent/ââmisinterpret; people also have jobs and other commitments; but Iâm hoping we will have more clarity over time/ââ update to a better state overall as a society given enough time.
Meanwhile, Iâd like more clarification on one matter. Iâm one of those people who connected Charlotte, the author of the TIME article with the curious case of the Aurora Quinn Elmore, an unofficial SA mediator who interviews people via facebook and recommends actions for accused and accuser in EA-adjacent/ârationalist communities in the bay. This person was introduced to the EA-adjacent group house situation by an active EA (out of good intentions/â lack of awareness I think, it was a high stress situation and all sides were acting sub-optimally) and it was told to me that this EA got the idea of involving the mediator from her work of mediating SA cases at CFAR or Center For Applied Rationality. I was told that this person has mediated at least 5+ SA cases as far as this EA knows, and probably more. Can you verify this information? How many cases has she mediated in totality? Why is CFAR with millions in funding using an unofficial individual (who is a PM in her day job) with no formal training in /â affiliation to womenâs organizations to arbitrate SA cases? Some women who have had their situations arbitrated by this mediator have told me that they faced retaliation for speaking up, that they were informed of a âno-gossip policyâ, ie, if the mediator has arbitrated the case and ruled in favor of an accused and if the accuser then speaks about the case to her friends or others, she will face consequences up to and including career consequences and being removed from communities. Can someone from CFAR share more context/âdata? Thank you.
Thanks Keerthana. Iâm afraid I donât know anything about CFARâs processes. It might be worth you reaching out to CFAR directly: contact@rationality.org.
I look forward to reading your > women-friendly culture updates a movement can take If and when you choose to share.
I understand that CEA doesnât have any special insight into CFARâs decision to use Aurora Quinn Elmore for mediation. But Iâd guess CEA has quite a lot of information about CFAR including non-public info, and that other EAs could benefit from knowing at least the gist of this. If someone was considering attending CFAR programming (or working for CFAR) and asked the community health team if there were any concerns they should know about, what would you tell them? Has the community health team received complaints about CFAR aside from the Brent incident, and if so, how many? Does the community health team have any concerns about CFAR soliciting attendees via the EA Forum?
CFARâs use of Aurora for mediation is part of a pattern of highly questionable policies and decision-making. Iâm sure CEA is aware of the utter debacle around CFARâs mistakes regarding Brent and their failure to safeguard a minor (among other mistakes) in that situation. There has been discussion of other issues as well, not all related to sexuality, but many related to troubling power dynamics. As one EA put it :
CFARâs track record includes a litany of awful mistakes re. welfare and safeguarding where each taken alone would typically warrant suspension or disqualification, and in concert should guarantee the latter as it demonstratesârather than (e.g.) âgrave mistake which is an aberration from their usually excellent standardsââa pattern of gross negligence and utter corporate incompetence. Whatever degree of intermediate risk attending these workshops constitute is unwise to accept (or to encourage others accepting), given CFAR realising these risks is already well-established.
When a community builder who was asked for recommendations of people who might like to attend a CFAR workshop wisely inquired âwhat safeguards, if any, are now in place to avoid similar situations in the futureâ, she received no response. CFARâs co-founder and President has acknowledged that âadults should indeed not expect that we are vetting a particularly careful or safe environment particularly reliablyâ and that âmany bad mistakes were made, then [at the time of the Brent incident] and previously and afterwards.â Does the community health team consider these to be red flags (especially given CFARâs track record of problems)? If not, why not?
Despite any downvotes (which I anticipated), I think this is an important issue and I hope the community health team responds. And FWIW Iâm open to the idea that their response could make me feel less concerned about CFAR than I currently do.
We (the Community Health team at CEA) would like to share some more information about the cases in the TIME article, and our previous knowledge of these cases. Weâve put these comments in the approximate order that they appear in the TIME article.
Re: Gopalakrishnanâs experiences
We read her post with concern. We saw quite a few supportive messages from community members, and we also tried to offer support. Our team also reached out to Gopalakrishnan in a direct message to ask if she was interested in sharing more information with us about the specific incidents.
Re: The man who
Expressed opinions about âpedophilic relationshipsâ
âAnother woman, who dated the same man several years earlier in a polyamorous relationship, alleges that he had once attempted to put his penis in her mouth while she was sleeping.â
We donât know this personâs identity for sure, but one of these accounts resembles a previous public accusation made against a person who used to be involved in the rationality community. He has been banned from CEA events for almost 5 years, and we understand he has been banned from some other EA spaces. He has been a critic of the EA movement for some time.
We were aware of the second allegation and were in contact with the woman. We did not know about the first allegation until recently.
Re: Masturbation comment
Time magazine described it as âAfter that leader arranged for her to be flown to the U.K. for a job interview, she recalls being surprised to discover that she was expected to stay in his home, not a hotel. When she arrived, she says, âhe told me he needed to masturbate before seeing me.ââ
We know lots of people are particularly concerned about this, which makes sense. Our understanding is that more information will be forthcoming, and we hope to be able to say more about it next week.
Re: Rochelle Shen âsays she has firsthand experience of the ways the movement dismisses allegations. âThey want to keep it all in the family.ââ
As far as we know, we hadnât interacted with Shen at the time this was written. We donât have a complete picture of how others in the community have handled allegations that have come to them. In general, the community health team encourages people to consider all their options for handling a problem, including getting legal advice if they think a crime may have happened.
Re: The Bay Area House
The TIME article describes the house as âroughly a third of the residents were EAs, and the house regularly hosted EA events.â We were aware of the existence of this house after some concerns were raised about a year ago. We werenât aware of EA events hosted in the house, but it is common for people in the EA community to invite other community members around to their houses.
Re: âmale co-leader of the house was accused of sexual misconduct by an ex-girlfriend who says she met him at an EA conferenceâ
Community Health became aware of concerns about this person about a year ago. He had been to an EA Global conference around 5 years ago, and we decided not to admit him to any future CEA-run events. We reached out to the accuser asking if we could help.
Re: âthe other residents of the house started a Google Doc to collectively discuss how to handle them.â
Community Health was not aware of this document or the process in the house generally.
Re: âan EA living in the house suggested bringing in a mediator named Aurora Quinn-Elmoreâ
Community Health has not referred people to Quinn-Elmore. She last attended an EA conference around 5 years ago.
Re: âa much older EA recruited her to join his polyamorous relationship while she was still in collegeâ
To our knowledge, we donât know about this specific situation
Re: Man who âasked how old she was, she recalls, then quickly suggested she join his polyamorous relationship. Shortly after agreeing to date him, âHe told me that âI could sleep with you on Monday,â but on Tuesday Iâm with this other girl,â
To our knowledge, we donât know about this specific situation.
Re: other concerns raised in the comments section
A commenter wrote that they had heard some very serious allegations. They later removed their own comments about this.
We were aware of one of these situations and had already taken action to ban the accused from CEA events (although the accused doesnât seem to have been involved with the EA community in some time).
Some of the other situations this commenter referred to were not ones we had heard about, and did not contain enough information for us to identify the situation or learn more. We have asked the commenter for more information. If anyone has specific information about these or other problems in the community, our door is very much open.
âŚâŚ.
If you have more information about these cases, or other situations of harassment or abuse in the EA community, we would really like to help.
Please reach out to me by email (catherine@centreforeffectivealtruism.org) or fill in this form (anonymously if you wish) to reach the whole Community Health team. You can read more about Julia Wise and my roles as contact people for the EA community here.
If the situation may have involved a crime, you may wish to reach out to
Legal help. Many countries have free hotlines that can help people navigate the legal and justice systems (e.g. sexual violence hotline in US, resources for crime victims in the US, this list of legal hotlines in the UK)
The police
If the situation involves mental health issues, you may wish to seek professional help
Hi Catherine, thank you for clarifying what measures were taken regarding each instance reported in the TIME article and for directly addressing each point.
Regarding my previous post, hereâs more context from a previous discussion on why I havenât yet involved CEAâs Health team: https://ââforum.effectivealtruism.org/ââposts/ââsD4kdobiRaBpxcL8M/ââwhat-happened-to-the-women-and-effective-altruism-post?commentId=MxJqDoNTqLxkPthzy Iâll probably share more thoughts, especially regarding why I spoke to TIME, women-friendly culture updates a movement can take and more perspectives when time permits me to think more clearly about this topic and write them down. Obviously, SA is a high stress discussion; a lot of context is lost in translation and in medium of communication; people can misrepresent/ââmisinterpret; people also have jobs and other commitments; but Iâm hoping we will have more clarity over time/ââ update to a better state overall as a society given enough time.
Meanwhile, Iâd like more clarification on one matter. Iâm one of those people who connected Charlotte, the author of the TIME article with the curious case of the Aurora Quinn Elmore, an unofficial SA mediator who interviews people via facebook and recommends actions for accused and accuser in EA-adjacent/ârationalist communities in the bay. This person was introduced to the EA-adjacent group house situation by an active EA (out of good intentions/â lack of awareness I think, it was a high stress situation and all sides were acting sub-optimally) and it was told to me that this EA got the idea of involving the mediator from her work of mediating SA cases at CFAR or Center For Applied Rationality. I was told that this person has mediated at least 5+ SA cases as far as this EA knows, and probably more. Can you verify this information? How many cases has she mediated in totality? Why is CFAR with millions in funding using an unofficial individual (who is a PM in her day job) with no formal training in /â affiliation to womenâs organizations to arbitrate SA cases? Some women who have had their situations arbitrated by this mediator have told me that they faced retaliation for speaking up, that they were informed of a âno-gossip policyâ, ie, if the mediator has arbitrated the case and ruled in favor of an accused and if the accuser then speaks about the case to her friends or others, she will face consequences up to and including career consequences and being removed from communities. Can someone from CFAR share more context/âdata? Thank you.
Thanks Keerthana. Iâm afraid I donât know anything about CFARâs processes. It might be worth you reaching out to CFAR directly: contact@rationality.org.
I look forward to reading your
> women-friendly culture updates a movement can take
If and when you choose to share.
I understand that CEA doesnât have any special insight into CFARâs decision to use Aurora Quinn Elmore for mediation. But Iâd guess CEA has quite a lot of information about CFAR including non-public info, and that other EAs could benefit from knowing at least the gist of this. If someone was considering attending CFAR programming (or working for CFAR) and asked the community health team if there were any concerns they should know about, what would you tell them? Has the community health team received complaints about CFAR aside from the Brent incident, and if so, how many? Does the community health team have any concerns about CFAR soliciting attendees via the EA Forum?
CFARâs use of Aurora for mediation is part of a pattern of highly questionable policies and decision-making. Iâm sure CEA is aware of the utter debacle around CFARâs mistakes regarding Brent and their failure to safeguard a minor (among other mistakes) in that situation. There has been discussion of other issues as well, not all related to sexuality, but many related to troubling power dynamics. As one EA put it :
When a community builder who was asked for recommendations of people who might like to attend a CFAR workshop wisely inquired âwhat safeguards, if any, are now in place to avoid similar situations in the futureâ, she received no response. CFARâs co-founder and President has acknowledged that âadults should indeed not expect that we are vetting a particularly careful or safe environment particularly reliablyâ and that âmany bad mistakes were made, then [at the time of the Brent incident] and previously and afterwards.â Does the community health team consider these to be red flags (especially given CFARâs track record of problems)? If not, why not?
Itâs a bad sign that you were being downvoted! I gave you my upvote!
Thanks Anthony, I appreciate the support!
Despite any downvotes (which I anticipated), I think this is an important issue and I hope the community health team responds. And FWIW Iâm open to the idea that their response could make me feel less concerned about CFAR than I currently do.
+1 :)