Thanks for getting the ball rolling on this discussion! This can often be a thankless task as even if people agree with 70-80% of what you wrote, unfortunately, their comments will naturally focus on the parts where they disagree with you.
On the other hand, parts of this seems to go too far. For example, would organising an after-work drinks count as “promoting drugs among coworkers, including alcohol”?
This isn’t the only example where I’d like to see a bit more nuance and thought.
I think that if I am the generic able-bodied person with no other commitments then after work drinks are no problem. But maybe I have a history of alcoholism, and I can’t be around alcohol. Or maybe I have kids to pick up from daycare, so I can’t join. Or maybe I have an extra long commute and need to start heading home as soon as work ends. Or maybe it is as simply as having a small amount of hearing loss, such that even though office conversations are fine I literally can’t hear anything in a bar with loud music and a dozen background conversations.
If it were just some friends hanging out then I think it wouldn’t be so troublesome, but work relationships are often formed at “after work drinks,” and as a result some people are systematically (although unintentionally) excluded from the very events that make them more likely to get promotions, etc.
I wouldn’t go so far as to put some kind of a ban on “getting drinks,” but I think that there should be consideration to benefits, risks, who is being excluded (and if it is justified to exclude them), etc. A lot of it is context-dependent, so we can’t really make rules that apply to different organizations (what works for Org A might not work for Org B), but in general I am very much in agreement with you that I’d also “like to see a bit more nuance and thought.”
For example, would organising an after-work drinks count as “promoting drugs among coworkers, including alcohol”?
Employer-organized happy hours and other social events are often careful to have non-alcoholic options for this reason (among others like inclusivity).
Thanks for getting the ball rolling on this discussion! This can often be a thankless task as even if people agree with 70-80% of what you wrote, unfortunately, their comments will naturally focus on the parts where they disagree with you.
On the other hand, parts of this seems to go too far. For example, would organising an after-work drinks count as “promoting drugs among coworkers, including alcohol”?
This isn’t the only example where I’d like to see a bit more nuance and thought.
I think that if I am the generic able-bodied person with no other commitments then after work drinks are no problem. But maybe I have a history of alcoholism, and I can’t be around alcohol. Or maybe I have kids to pick up from daycare, so I can’t join. Or maybe I have an extra long commute and need to start heading home as soon as work ends. Or maybe it is as simply as having a small amount of hearing loss, such that even though office conversations are fine I literally can’t hear anything in a bar with loud music and a dozen background conversations.
If it were just some friends hanging out then I think it wouldn’t be so troublesome, but work relationships are often formed at “after work drinks,” and as a result some people are systematically (although unintentionally) excluded from the very events that make them more likely to get promotions, etc.
I wouldn’t go so far as to put some kind of a ban on “getting drinks,” but I think that there should be consideration to benefits, risks, who is being excluded (and if it is justified to exclude them), etc. A lot of it is context-dependent, so we can’t really make rules that apply to different organizations (what works for Org A might not work for Org B), but in general I am very much in agreement with you that I’d also “like to see a bit more nuance and thought.”
Employer-organized happy hours and other social events are often careful to have non-alcoholic options for this reason (among others like inclusivity).
Agreed that this is a good practice.