Super interesting. Based on my understanding of CE’s thinking, would not doing something 5x more cost effective than the second best, in a cause area that falls a bit below the cost-effectiveness that EA is interested in, still be EA-aligned? I mean the counterfactual impact can still be huge if you are affecting thousands or millions of lives and moving large amounts of money/resources and doing this much more cost effectively than the best, existing player. A proof point would be a CE-incubated charity that now is absorbing significant funding from either something like USAID, Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation or similar.
I think this is key. I get the impression (and others do as well) that EA is all-or-nothing. Either you give 100% to AMF or you are not EA.
A private foundation that is focused on the state of New York can use EA principles in trying to identify the biggest impact they can have, within their constraints, and that is still EA. I think even the cause area constraints that are the least EA (say, the arts), can still find ways to improve their impact using EA principles. Though of course that would be more difficult.
If my goal is to help other people make their donations more effective, and I can either:
move $1 million from a median charity to AMF
move $10 million from a median art-focused charity to the most effective art-focused charity
I would prefer to do #1 because AMF is >10x better (maybe even >1000x better) than the best art charity. So while in theory I would encourage an art-focused foundation to make more effective donations within their area, I don’t think trying to do that would be a good use of my time.
Yes, although that’s a relatively restricted (and often unusually low-impact) focus for a foundation. Even within often average-impact-per-$ remits like education, research, medical care, and geographic-area benefit, it is more plausible to envision grants with very good impact even if not full AMF level.
That’s fair. Though I would counter that GiveWell says that they have directed $2 billion over 10+ years to effective charities. Private Foundations in the US give collectively around $100 billion a year. So there is a lot of money out there with potential to be influenced.
It’s pretty clear to me that these constraints are bad (and to me core EA is partially about breaking the self-imposed constraints of giving) but the simple reality is that private foundations are legally required to follow their charter. If the board wanted to radically change their charter, in most instances they could (my understanding), but boards tend to be extremely deferential to the founder’s original intent. They begin with a fundamental assumption: “We will focus our giving on X cause area or Y geographic area” and then they have the power to make decisions beyond that.
The concern I have is that EA has basically written off all private foundations that are not already EA-aligned as a lost cause.
Fwiw, I don’t know anybody actively promoting ‘EA has to be all-or-nothing.’ Like, there’s not an insider group of EA thought leaders who have decided that either you give “100% to AMF or you’re not an EA.” I’m not denying that that vibe can be there though; I guess it may just be more of a cultural thing, or the product of a mostly maximizing philosophy.
Context: As part of CEA events team I help organize and attend a lot of events that draw EA thought-leaders.
Yeah I am really only referring to a perception of all-or-nothing. And like you say, I think it is a product of a maximizing philosophy.
At the end of the day, it really just seems to be an EA marketing/outreach problem, and I think it is entirely addressable by the community. I think the paper idea I mention (discussing the perceived incompatibility of TBP and EA) could be a step in the right direction.
Super interesting. Based on my understanding of CE’s thinking, would not doing something 5x more cost effective than the second best, in a cause area that falls a bit below the cost-effectiveness that EA is interested in, still be EA-aligned? I mean the counterfactual impact can still be huge if you are affecting thousands or millions of lives and moving large amounts of money/resources and doing this much more cost effectively than the best, existing player. A proof point would be a CE-incubated charity that now is absorbing significant funding from either something like USAID, Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation or similar.
I think this is key. I get the impression (and others do as well) that EA is all-or-nothing. Either you give 100% to AMF or you are not EA.
A private foundation that is focused on the state of New York can use EA principles in trying to identify the biggest impact they can have, within their constraints, and that is still EA. I think even the cause area constraints that are the least EA (say, the arts), can still find ways to improve their impact using EA principles. Though of course that would be more difficult.
If my goal is to help other people make their donations more effective, and I can either:
move $1 million from a median charity to AMF
move $10 million from a median art-focused charity to the most effective art-focused charity
I would prefer to do #1 because AMF is >10x better (maybe even >1000x better) than the best art charity. So while in theory I would encourage an art-focused foundation to make more effective donations within their area, I don’t think trying to do that would be a good use of my time.
Yes, although that’s a relatively restricted (and often unusually low-impact) focus for a foundation. Even within often average-impact-per-$ remits like education, research, medical care, and geographic-area benefit, it is more plausible to envision grants with very good impact even if not full AMF level.
That’s fair. Though I would counter that GiveWell says that they have directed $2 billion over 10+ years to effective charities. Private Foundations in the US give collectively around $100 billion a year. So there is a lot of money out there with potential to be influenced.
I think the key actual difference (vs perceived as you point out), is whether you think those constraints are good or not.
It’s pretty clear to me that these constraints are bad (and to me core EA is partially about breaking the self-imposed constraints of giving) but the simple reality is that private foundations are legally required to follow their charter. If the board wanted to radically change their charter, in most instances they could (my understanding), but boards tend to be extremely deferential to the founder’s original intent. They begin with a fundamental assumption: “We will focus our giving on X cause area or Y geographic area” and then they have the power to make decisions beyond that.
The concern I have is that EA has basically written off all private foundations that are not already EA-aligned as a lost cause.
Fwiw, I don’t know anybody actively promoting ‘EA has to be all-or-nothing.’ Like, there’s not an insider group of EA thought leaders who have decided that either you give “100% to AMF or you’re not an EA.” I’m not denying that that vibe can be there though; I guess it may just be more of a cultural thing, or the product of a mostly maximizing philosophy.
Context: As part of CEA events team I help organize and attend a lot of events that draw EA thought-leaders.
Yeah I am really only referring to a perception of all-or-nothing. And like you say, I think it is a product of a maximizing philosophy.
At the end of the day, it really just seems to be an EA marketing/outreach problem, and I think it is entirely addressable by the community. I think the paper idea I mention (discussing the perceived incompatibility of TBP and EA) could be a step in the right direction.