I have a lot of other issues with this comment, but I think just from reading Owen’s statement your portrayal of “if anyone feels feels the need to harm someone’s career to such an extent just because they felt uncomfortable from a single comment” is just objectively false?
who said in a recent email to me “I deliberately did not name you as I want to draw attention to [systemic issues]”
The mischaracterisation of people who come forward like this is something I really really wish nobody in the EA community would do. It can be incredibly hard to come forward. (And comments like this one make it harder.)
(Edit: you edited your comment, and your new wording I also disagree with. It seems to me that “someone’s career deserves to be harmed” wasn’t her motivation. It was drawing attention to systemic issues. Which would make sense and is plausibly very altruistic. To just strongly assume otherwise seems bad faith.
Personally, your phrasing “should grow up” is what I disagree with most. This is a serious conversation and that is not an argument, just an insult, which should have no place here.)
If anyone feels that someone’s career deserves to be harmed to such an extent because they unintentionally made someone else feel uncomfortable
My argument is that if people continue to push for more absurd demands on other people’s behavior (‘this person should have known this other person was uncomfortable even though this wasn’t communicated to the former person through multiple opportunities during repeated interactions of a similar kind’), those demands are going to critically damage the society they live in.
People naively ignore the fact that if they agree on penalizing people to such an extent for simple mistakes, then it’s likely that a reaction from other parts of society (parts that I assume many people here have to little to do with) will cause at least some rollback of the freedoms that were hard-won by more serious activists from the past, as well as prevent progress on many serious efforts that are ongoing today, by being associated with such radicalism.
Also, I think it’s simply authoritarian. Let people make mistakes without having to endure this kind of persecution.
a. They do not think your description of the situation matches the description Owen provided.
b. The desserts language is misleading because it’s not about who deserves career advancement but about can the person be placed in areas where their career has advanced in way that does not induce uncomfortable sexual situations upon others.
I’ll rephrase that as “If anyone feels that someone’s career deserves to be harmed to such an extent because they unintentionally made someone else feel uncomfortable with a single comment, then I think people who hold that opinion should grow up.”
This comment seems willfully obtuse.
The person is referring to a pattern of behavior, ergo a series of comments and bad experiences. A comment that comes at the end of a series and culminates in someone trying to take corrective action is not “a single comment that led to” their action.
Please reflect on how much you might be mad/sad/hurt/fearful and saying foolish things. Maybe don’t say them, or at least come back and fix them later.
I have a lot of other issues with this comment, but I think just from reading Owen’s statement your portrayal of “if anyone feels feels the need to harm someone’s career to such an extent just because they felt uncomfortable from a single comment” is just objectively false?
The mischaracterisation of people who come forward like this is something I really really wish nobody in the EA community would do. It can be incredibly hard to come forward. (And comments like this one make it harder.)
(Edit: you edited your comment, and your new wording I also disagree with. It seems to me that “someone’s career deserves to be harmed” wasn’t her motivation. It was drawing attention to systemic issues. Which would make sense and is plausibly very altruistic. To just strongly assume otherwise seems bad faith.
Personally, your phrasing “should grow up” is what I disagree with most. This is a serious conversation and that is not an argument, just an insult, which should have no place here.)
Please read my edit carefully.
My argument is that if people continue to push for more absurd demands on other people’s behavior (‘this person should have known this other person was uncomfortable even though this wasn’t communicated to the former person through multiple opportunities during repeated interactions of a similar kind’), those demands are going to critically damage the society they live in.
People naively ignore the fact that if they agree on penalizing people to such an extent for simple mistakes, then it’s likely that a reaction from other parts of society (parts that I assume many people here have to little to do with) will cause at least some rollback of the freedoms that were hard-won by more serious activists from the past, as well as prevent progress on many serious efforts that are ongoing today, by being associated with such radicalism.
Also, I think it’s simply authoritarian. Let people make mistakes without having to endure this kind of persecution.
I think people are disagree voting because:
a. They do not think your description of the situation matches the description Owen provided.
b. The desserts language is misleading because it’s not about who deserves career advancement but about can the person be placed in areas where their career has advanced in way that does not induce uncomfortable sexual situations upon others.
You are correct. My mistake.
I’ll rephrase that as “If anyone feels that someone’s career deserves to be harmed to such an extent because they unintentionally made someone else feel uncomfortable with a single comment, then I think people who hold that opinion should grow up.”
Cotton-Barratt writes “(this wasn’t the first time I’d mentioned masturbation)”—this wasn’t about a single comment.
Very well. “a single comment which led to that other person openly object to that former person’s behavior”.
This comment seems willfully obtuse. The person is referring to a pattern of behavior, ergo a series of comments and bad experiences. A comment that comes at the end of a series and culminates in someone trying to take corrective action is not “a single comment that led to” their action.
Please reflect on how much you might be mad/sad/hurt/fearful and saying foolish things. Maybe don’t say them, or at least come back and fix them later.
Again, I think you’re missing the point. This is about a pattern of behaviour.
Should I add the word “ultimately”?