I will respond with my interpretation of the report, so that the author might correct me to help me understand it better.
If you ask “If we have an option between preventing the birth of Sabs versus preventing the birth of an average chicken, how many chickens is Sabs worth?” then Sabs might be worth −10 chickens since chickens have net negative lives whereas you (hopefully) have a net positive life.
If you ask “Let’s compare a maximally happy Sabs and maximally happy chickens, how many chickens is Sabs worth?”, I don’t think these estimates respond to that either. It might be the case that chickens have a very large welfare range, but this is mostly because they have a potential for feeling excruciating pain even though their best lives are not that good.
I think you need to complement this research with “how much the badness of average experiences of animals compare with each other” to answer your question. This report by Rethink Priorities seems to be based on the range between the worst and the best experiences for each species.
This is exactly right, Emre. We are not commenting on the average amount of value or disvalue that any particular kind of individual adds to the world. Instead, we’re trying to estimate how much value different kinds of individuals could add to the world. You then need to go do the hard work of assessing individuals’ actual welfare levels to make tradeoffs. But that’s as it should be. There’s already been a lot of work on welfare assessment; there’s been much less work on how to interpret the significance of those welfare assessments in cross-species decision-making. We’re trying to advance the latter conversation.
Thank you for the prompt reply Bob. Just to be clear, I am happy about the scope of this project and am impressed by its quality. I do not intend to criticise the report for being mindful about its scope.
I will respond with my interpretation of the report, so that the author might correct me to help me understand it better.
If you ask “If we have an option between preventing the birth of Sabs versus preventing the birth of an average chicken, how many chickens is Sabs worth?” then Sabs might be worth −10 chickens since chickens have net negative lives whereas you (hopefully) have a net positive life.
If you ask “Let’s compare a maximally happy Sabs and maximally happy chickens, how many chickens is Sabs worth?”, I don’t think these estimates respond to that either. It might be the case that chickens have a very large welfare range, but this is mostly because they have a potential for feeling excruciating pain even though their best lives are not that good.
I think you need to complement this research with “how much the badness of average experiences of animals compare with each other” to answer your question. This report by Rethink Priorities seems to be based on the range between the worst and the best experiences for each species.
This is exactly right, Emre. We are not commenting on the average amount of value or disvalue that any particular kind of individual adds to the world. Instead, we’re trying to estimate how much value different kinds of individuals could add to the world. You then need to go do the hard work of assessing individuals’ actual welfare levels to make tradeoffs. But that’s as it should be. There’s already been a lot of work on welfare assessment; there’s been much less work on how to interpret the significance of those welfare assessments in cross-species decision-making. We’re trying to advance the latter conversation.
Thank you for the prompt reply Bob. Just to be clear, I am happy about the scope of this project and am impressed by its quality. I do not intend to criticise the report for being mindful about its scope.
Didn’t take it that way at all! I appreciate your taking the time to comment and help clarify what we’ve done.