we make promises all the time that have implied conditionality, such as the example about picking up your niece from school, and marriages which most people agree should end if that is best, but that’s rarely in the vows
The niece scenario seems quite different from that of the pledge. To recap the scenario:
If you promise to pick up your niece from school and are hit by a car it’s not terrible for you to break that promise because you’re in the ICU.
If you’re in the ICU, it is quite possibly basically impossible for you to pick up your niece! If you’re on oxygen support, or have a damaged spine, or many of the other conditions that warrant ICU, attempting to drive to her school might literally kill you, leaving her still unpicked up. If you’re on strong painkillers you might still be able to physically operate the car, but your judgement is so impaired that driving would impose an unacceptably large risk on third parties, violating their rights. Or you might just be in a coma and unable to do anything at all. This seems quite dissimilar to the case of people wishing to get out of their pledge commitment. My impression is these people generally much more mundane motivations, closer to “I don’t want to” than “I cannot”. I think it is reasonable to infer a silent “unless it is impossible” into a promise, but not a “unless I change my mind”—that would invalidate the entire point of the pledge.
Similarly, I strongly disagree about the marriage example. The classic marriage oath clearly states that it is meant to be until death, explicitly clarifies that a long list of conditions are not sufficient grounds for its end, and brings together a huge group of witnesses.
To have and to hold, from this day forward, for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, until death do us part.
It’s hard to imagine how people could make much clearer their intentions to enter into a permanently binding contract, as was enshrined in law for much of its history.
Nor do I agree that fidelity to promises is a problem as you imply:
In cases where someone is particularly scrupulous to a point of detriment
The idea that someone should fulfil their commitments is not a detriment or a problem. On the contrary, being a trustworthy person yields many advantages. Being able to credibly commit yourself can give others the confidence to act in beneficial ways that they might choose not to if they were afraid you would screw them over later. It also allows us to bind ourselves, protecting ourselves from future moments of weakness.
Thanks for the input. I’m sorry I’m not entirely following what you are suggesting here.
I’d be very happy to take input on what you would suggest.
The essence of the pledge is to be a useful commitment device that helps people to stick to a commitment knowing that they’ve promised it to themselves and also to others (e.g. by taking a public pledge where your name is alongside others).
However, we don’t want the commitment to be seen as so high that no one would take it on a slight chance that the best thing for themselves and the world would be that they resign.
I completely agree that broken commitments are bad (as laid out in the document), but shying away from commitments because there’s a chance they might be broken is also bad.
I’m very open to any suggestions you have for how to communicate that.
In regards to the “scrupulous to a point of detriment” I’m referring to cases where scrupulousness is detrimental (i.e. Scrupulosity, OCD). If someone has that propensity it is probably better to not make a more ambitious and narrow commitment that there’s a chance they might need to resign from (and instead make a softer commitment or one with very very clear caveats).
The niece scenario seems quite different from that of the pledge. To recap the scenario:
If you’re in the ICU, it is quite possibly basically impossible for you to pick up your niece! If you’re on oxygen support, or have a damaged spine, or many of the other conditions that warrant ICU, attempting to drive to her school might literally kill you, leaving her still unpicked up. If you’re on strong painkillers you might still be able to physically operate the car, but your judgement is so impaired that driving would impose an unacceptably large risk on third parties, violating their rights. Or you might just be in a coma and unable to do anything at all. This seems quite dissimilar to the case of people wishing to get out of their pledge commitment. My impression is these people generally much more mundane motivations, closer to “I don’t want to” than “I cannot”. I think it is reasonable to infer a silent “unless it is impossible” into a promise, but not a “unless I change my mind”—that would invalidate the entire point of the pledge.
Similarly, I strongly disagree about the marriage example. The classic marriage oath clearly states that it is meant to be until death, explicitly clarifies that a long list of conditions are not sufficient grounds for its end, and brings together a huge group of witnesses.
It’s hard to imagine how people could make much clearer their intentions to enter into a permanently binding contract, as was enshrined in law for much of its history.
Nor do I agree that fidelity to promises is a problem as you imply:
The idea that someone should fulfil their commitments is not a detriment or a problem. On the contrary, being a trustworthy person yields many advantages. Being able to credibly commit yourself can give others the confidence to act in beneficial ways that they might choose not to if they were afraid you would screw them over later. It also allows us to bind ourselves, protecting ourselves from future moments of weakness.
Hi Larks,
Thanks for the input. I’m sorry I’m not entirely following what you are suggesting here.
I’d be very happy to take input on what you would suggest.
The essence of the pledge is to be a useful commitment device that helps people to stick to a commitment knowing that they’ve promised it to themselves and also to others (e.g. by taking a public pledge where your name is alongside others).
However, we don’t want the commitment to be seen as so high that no one would take it on a slight chance that the best thing for themselves and the world would be that they resign.
I completely agree that broken commitments are bad (as laid out in the document), but shying away from commitments because there’s a chance they might be broken is also bad.
I’m very open to any suggestions you have for how to communicate that.
In regards to the “scrupulous to a point of detriment” I’m referring to cases where scrupulousness is detrimental (i.e. Scrupulosity, OCD). If someone has that propensity it is probably better to not make a more ambitious and narrow commitment that there’s a chance they might need to resign from (and instead make a softer commitment or one with very very clear caveats).
Thanks again 😀