Bias alert: I didn’t go to an elite university; I might be sensitive about this.
I think it’s probably bad to tell (very) talented young people from non-elite backgrounds to work at EA jobs, if we are not willing to give non-elites a chance at taking senior-level or leadership positions.
Instead, in such a world, we should probably advise such people to aim for the most prestigious non-EA opportunities that they can get (grad school, FAANG, entrepreneurship, etc), and ask them to come back to EA after they’ve made a name for themselves.
I think a) such advice isn’t terrible but we’re probably leaving a lot of value on the table if orgs can’t have junior non-elites and also a lot of people are aiming at prestige instead of more socially useful forms of career capital, and b) your post explicitly recommends against that for entry-level employees, which I find confusing.
Just spinning off of this, being also someone without an elite school brand to fall back on, I am often hesitant to pursue non-technical work in any capacity and especially so at an EA org due to the nicheness and its lack of legibility.
A decent compromise is technical work at an EA org but even that feels like a gamble sometimes without grinding my way into a FAANG company to establish the aptitude credential first.
Thanks for your comment Linch! We appreciate the feedback.
To clarify, competence and fit are ultimately the most important considerations for a position at the end of the day. We don’t think you should prevent talented young people from non-elite backgrounds from taking on senior-level positions. Our claim is closer to: 1) if you create a prestigious website/application/program then you would get better candidates, and 2) experience at an elite institution is one factor among many that is fairly predictive for average competence/specialization. I’m now more more uncertain about whether 1) is true.
I agree with a) in that explicitly aiming at prestige seems to lose a lot of energy better spent aiming elsewhere. I’m not too sure I understand what you mean by b), but to reiterate our point: we think that it’s basically pointless (and probably detrimental!) to be elitist for entry level positions, given the selection pressures.
Hopefully this clarifies our thinking a bit more, and thanks again for taking the time to share your thoughts!
Thanks for the clarifications! Sorry my wording was confusing!
I’m not too sure I understand what you mean by b), but to reiterate our point: we think that it’s basically pointless (and probably detrimental!) to be elitist for entry level positions, given the selection pressures.
I’m not sure, but I think I disagree here. I think often you have less signals of demonstrated competency, success, and track record for most people who apply for entry-level positions. So for, e.g., a summer research or journalism internship, it makes sense to (relatively) upweight signals like attending elite universities. Since you can trust that the elite universities did an okay job of filtering your candidates for competency.
In contrast, you might hope that for mid-level and senior positions, people with both elite and non-elite backgrounds have had more time to “prove themselves” in other avenues, so you have more clear signals of ability to do a job (because they might have done past similar jobs), whether in or out of EA. While some of this could look like “prestige” (e.g. top companies as you mentioned in your post), much of it could look like having specific references to vouch for you, or detailed records/impact of specific projects you did.
Bias alert: I didn’t go to an elite university; I might be sensitive about this.
I think it’s probably bad to tell (very) talented young people from non-elite backgrounds to work at EA jobs, if we are not willing to give non-elites a chance at taking senior-level or leadership positions.
Instead, in such a world, we should probably advise such people to aim for the most prestigious non-EA opportunities that they can get (grad school, FAANG, entrepreneurship, etc), and ask them to come back to EA after they’ve made a name for themselves.
I think a) such advice isn’t terrible but we’re probably leaving a lot of value on the table if orgs can’t have junior non-elites and also a lot of people are aiming at prestige instead of more socially useful forms of career capital, and b) your post explicitly recommends against that for entry-level employees, which I find confusing.
Just spinning off of this, being also someone without an elite school brand to fall back on, I am often hesitant to pursue non-technical work in any capacity and especially so at an EA org due to the nicheness and its lack of legibility.
A decent compromise is technical work at an EA org but even that feels like a gamble sometimes without grinding my way into a FAANG company to establish the aptitude credential first.
Thanks for your comment Linch! We appreciate the feedback.
To clarify, competence and fit are ultimately the most important considerations for a position at the end of the day. We don’t think you should prevent talented young people from non-elite backgrounds from taking on senior-level positions. Our claim is closer to: 1) if you create a prestigious website/application/program then you would get better candidates, and 2) experience at an elite institution is one factor among many that is fairly predictive for average competence/specialization. I’m now more more uncertain about whether 1) is true.
I agree with a) in that explicitly aiming at prestige seems to lose a lot of energy better spent aiming elsewhere. I’m not too sure I understand what you mean by b), but to reiterate our point: we think that it’s basically pointless (and probably detrimental!) to be elitist for entry level positions, given the selection pressures.
Hopefully this clarifies our thinking a bit more, and thanks again for taking the time to share your thoughts!
Thanks for the clarifications! Sorry my wording was confusing!
I’m not sure, but I think I disagree here. I think often you have less signals of demonstrated competency, success, and track record for most people who apply for entry-level positions. So for, e.g., a summer research or journalism internship, it makes sense to (relatively) upweight signals like attending elite universities. Since you can trust that the elite universities did an okay job of filtering your candidates for competency.
In contrast, you might hope that for mid-level and senior positions, people with both elite and non-elite backgrounds have had more time to “prove themselves” in other avenues, so you have more clear signals of ability to do a job (because they might have done past similar jobs), whether in or out of EA. While some of this could look like “prestige” (e.g. top companies as you mentioned in your post), much of it could look like having specific references to vouch for you, or detailed records/impact of specific projects you did.