Thanks and I think your second footnote makes an excellent distinction that I failed to get across well in my post.
I do think it’s at least directionally an “EA principle” that “best” and “right” should go together, although of course there’s plenty of room for naive first-order calculation critiques, heuristics/intuitions/norms that might push against some less nuanced understanding of “best”.
I still think there’s a useful conceptual distinction to be made between these terms, but maybe those ancillary (for lack of a better word) considerations relevant to what one thinks is the “best” use of money blur the line enough to make it too difficult to distinguish these in practice.
Re: your last paragraph, I want to emphasize that my dispute is with the terms “using EA principles”. I have no doubt whatsoever about the first part, “genuinely interested in making the world better”
Thanks Aaron, I think you’re responses to me and Jason do clear things up. I still think the framing of it is a bit off though:
I accept that you didn’t intend your framing to be insulting to others, but using “updating down” about the “genuine interest” of others read as hurtful on my first read. As a (relative to EA) high contextualiser it’s the thing that stood out for me, so I’m glad you endorse that the ‘genuine interest’ part isn’t what you’re focusing on, and you could probably reframe your critique without it.
My current understanding of your position is that it is actually: “I’ve come to realise over the last year that many people in EA aren’t directing their marginal dollars/resources to the efforts that I see as most cost-effective, since I also think those are the efforts that EA principles imply are the most effective.”[1] To me, this claim is about the object-level disagreement on what EA principles imply.
However, in your response to Jason you say “it’s possible I’m mistaken over the degree to which direct resources to the place you think needs them most” is a consensus-EA principle which switches back to people not being EA? Or not endorsing this view? But you’ve yet to provide any evidence that people aren’t doing this, as opposed to just disagreeing about what those places are.[2]
Secondary interpretation is: “EA principles imply one should make a quantitative point estimate of the good of all your relevant moral actions, and then act on the leading option in a ‘shut-up-and-calculate’ way. I now believe many fewer actors in the EA space actually do this than I did last year”
For example, in Ariel’s piece, Emily from OpenPhil implies that they have much lower moral weights on animal life than Rethink does, not that they don’t endorse doing ‘the most good’ (I think this is separable from OP’s commitment to worldview diversification).
Thanks and I think your second footnote makes an excellent distinction that I failed to get across well in my post.
I do think it’s at least directionally an “EA principle” that “best” and “right” should go together, although of course there’s plenty of room for naive first-order calculation critiques, heuristics/intuitions/norms that might push against some less nuanced understanding of “best”.
I still think there’s a useful conceptual distinction to be made between these terms, but maybe those ancillary (for lack of a better word) considerations relevant to what one thinks is the “best” use of money blur the line enough to make it too difficult to distinguish these in practice.
Re: your last paragraph, I want to emphasize that my dispute is with the terms “using EA principles”. I have no doubt whatsoever about the first part, “genuinely interested in making the world better”
Thanks Aaron, I think you’re responses to me and Jason do clear things up. I still think the framing of it is a bit off though:
I accept that you didn’t intend your framing to be insulting to others, but using “updating down” about the “genuine interest” of others read as hurtful on my first read. As a (relative to EA) high contextualiser it’s the thing that stood out for me, so I’m glad you endorse that the ‘genuine interest’ part isn’t what you’re focusing on, and you could probably reframe your critique without it.
My current understanding of your position is that it is actually: “I’ve come to realise over the last year that many people in EA aren’t directing their marginal dollars/resources to the efforts that I see as most cost-effective, since I also think those are the efforts that EA principles imply are the most effective.”[1] To me, this claim is about the object-level disagreement on what EA principles imply.
However, in your response to Jason you say “it’s possible I’m mistaken over the degree to which direct resources to the place you think needs them most” is a consensus-EA principle which switches back to people not being EA? Or not endorsing this view? But you’ve yet to provide any evidence that people aren’t doing this, as opposed to just disagreeing about what those places are.[2]
Secondary interpretation is: “EA principles imply one should make a quantitative point estimate of the good of all your relevant moral actions, and then act on the leading option in a ‘shut-up-and-calculate’ way. I now believe many fewer actors in the EA space actually do this than I did last year”
For example, in Ariel’s piece, Emily from OpenPhil implies that they have much lower moral weights on animal life than Rethink does, not that they don’t endorse doing ‘the most good’ (I think this is separable from OP’s commitment to worldview diversification).