Thanks this is brilliantly articulated and also fun to read. The sad thing is that strong arguments can be made for the expected value of many forms of smart, even semi-revolutionary activist methods (and have been on this forum) but like you said they seem not keen to engage with our framework at all.
Perhaps they should have hired you to help them write more compelling book!
I have one observation about your use of the term “social justice” which surprised me a little. The way I used to use the word at least, I would consider effective altruism’s approach to be an effective “social justice” approach, to rectify social injustices like kids dying from malaria and factory farming. But your use (and perhaps the generally accepted use now) is very different. Like here...
“We should fully expect maximizing welfare to generate complaints about “inequitable cause prioritization” (p. 82) from those who care more about social justice.”
I would have thought of maximizing welfare to be one form of social justice, and they would certainly not be mutually exclusive, but apparently the term now has more sinister connotations. When I think of social justice, I think of MLK, Ghandi and Mandela, all pragmatic activists who were wildly successful at creating lasting change with a cost effectiveness and scale that should make effective altruists salivate. I find it sad that “social justice” these days seems to carry the baggage of something like a...
And “social justice warrior” seems to be even worse. Until 15 years ago I would have been proud to identify as a social justice warrior, ie someone who thoughtfully and effectively fights injustice against animals, malaria deaths as well as racial inequity, but I fear the politicisation and pigeonholing of the term may now be irreversible.
Mind you I’ve lived in Uganda for the last 10 years and so perhaps I’m just behind on a legitimate evolution of the English language!
Just to say that I very much agree with your sadness. What a deplorable turn in language use that “social justice activism” has now become associated with a certain kind of social justice activism!
PS: of course, we can make a theoretical distinction between promoting aggregrate welfare and promoting justice (eg when one option benefits millions at the expense of one person—this might be considered unjust but welfare-increasing). But in practice, promoting justice and aggregate welfare are much more overlapping than is often recognized—but as you and I do seem to recognize…
Thanks this is brilliantly articulated and also fun to read. The sad thing is that strong arguments can be made for the expected value of many forms of smart, even semi-revolutionary activist methods (and have been on this forum) but like you said they seem not keen to engage with our framework at all.
Perhaps they should have hired you to help them write more compelling book!
I have one observation about your use of the term “social justice” which surprised me a little. The way I used to use the word at least, I would consider effective altruism’s approach to be an effective “social justice” approach, to rectify social injustices like kids dying from malaria and factory farming. But your use (and perhaps the generally accepted use now) is very different. Like here...
“We should fully expect maximizing welfare to generate complaints about “inequitable cause prioritization” (p. 82) from those who care more about social justice.”
I would have thought of maximizing welfare to be one form of social justice, and they would certainly not be mutually exclusive, but apparently the term now has more sinister connotations. When I think of social justice, I think of MLK, Ghandi and Mandela, all pragmatic activists who were wildly successful at creating lasting change with a cost effectiveness and scale that should make effective altruists salivate. I find it sad that “social justice” these days seems to carry the baggage of something like a...
Far-left-slightly-unstable-person-ranting-on-the-internet-about-identity-politics
And “social justice warrior” seems to be even worse. Until 15 years ago I would have been proud to identify as a social justice warrior, ie someone who thoughtfully and effectively fights injustice against animals, malaria deaths as well as racial inequity, but I fear the politicisation and pigeonholing of the term may now be irreversible.
Mind you I’ve lived in Uganda for the last 10 years and so perhaps I’m just behind on a legitimate evolution of the English language!
Would be interested to hear your thoughts.
Just to say that I very much agree with your sadness. What a deplorable turn in language use that “social justice activism” has now become associated with a certain kind of social justice activism!
PS: of course, we can make a theoretical distinction between promoting aggregrate welfare and promoting justice (eg when one option benefits millions at the expense of one person—this might be considered unjust but welfare-increasing). But in practice, promoting justice and aggregate welfare are much more overlapping than is often recognized—but as you and I do seem to recognize…