I would note that Toby and others in the long-termist camp do, in fact, very clearly embrace “the foundational values embedded in Peter Singer’s writings.” I agree that some people who embrace long-termism could decide to do so on other bases than impartial utilitarianism or similar arguments which agree with both redistribution and some importance of the long term, but I don’t hear them involved in the discussions, and so I don’t think it works as a criticism when the actual people do also advocate for near-term redistributive causes.
I don’t think I quite understand this reply. Are you saying that (check all that apply):
In your experience, the people involved in discussions do embrace redistribution and fairness as core values, they are just placing more value on future people.
Actual longtermists also advocate for near-term redistributive causes, so criticism about resource allocation within the movement away from the global poor and towards longtermism doesn’t make sense (i.e. it’s not zero-sum).
Redistributive commitments are only one part of the “foundational values”, and Toby and others in the longtermist camp are still motivated by the same underlying impartial utilitarianism, so pointing at less emphasis on redistribution is an unfair nitpick.
I would note that Toby and others in the long-termist camp do, in fact, very clearly embrace “the foundational values embedded in Peter Singer’s writings.” I agree that some people who embrace long-termism could decide to do so on other bases than impartial utilitarianism or similar arguments which agree with both redistribution and some importance of the long term, but I don’t hear them involved in the discussions, and so I don’t think it works as a criticism when the actual people do also advocate for near-term redistributive causes.
I don’t think I quite understand this reply. Are you saying that (check all that apply):
In your experience, the people involved in discussions do embrace redistribution and fairness as core values, they are just placing more value on future people.
Actual longtermists also advocate for near-term redistributive causes, so criticism about resource allocation within the movement away from the global poor and towards longtermism doesn’t make sense (i.e. it’s not zero-sum).
Redistributive commitments are only one part of the “foundational values”, and Toby and others in the longtermist camp are still motivated by the same underlying impartial utilitarianism, so pointing at less emphasis on redistribution is an unfair nitpick.
I think all of these are true, but I was pointing to #2 specifically.