Novelty: The high-impact actions we can find are not the same as what people who want to contribute to the common good typically do.
It’s not entirely clear to me what this means (specifically what work the “can” is doing).
If you mean that it could be the case that we find high impact actions which we not the same are what people who want to contribute to the good would typically do, then I agree this seems plausible as a premise for engaging in the project of effective altruism.
If you mean that the premise is that we actually can find high impact actions which are not the same as what people who want to contribute to the common good typically do, then it’s not so clear to me that this should be a premise in the argument for effective altruism. This sounds like we are assuming what the results of our effective altruist efforts to search for the actions that do the most to contribute to the common good (relative to their cost) will be: that the things we discover are high impact will be different from what people typically do. But, of course, it could turn out to be the case that actually the highest impact actions are those which people typically do (our investigations could turn out to vindicate common sense, after all), so it doesn’t seem like this is something we should take as a premise for effective altruism. It also seems in tension with the idea (which I think is worth preserving) that effective altruism is a question (i.e. effective altruism itself doesn’t assume that particular kinds of things are or are not high impact).
I assume, however, that you don’t actually mean to state that effective altruists should assume this latter thing to be true or that one needs to assume this in order to support effective altruism. I’m presuming that you instead mean something like: this needs to be true for engaging in effective altruism to be successful/interesting/worthwhile. In line with this interpretation, you note in the interview something that I was going to raise as another objection: that if everyone were already acting in an effective altruist way, then it would be likely false that the high impact things we discover are different from those that people typically do.
If so, then it may not be false to say that “The high-impact actions we can find are not the same as what people who want to contribute to the common good typically do”, but it seems bound to lead to confusion, with people misreading this as EAs assuming that he highest impact things are not what people typically do. It’s also not clear that this premise needs to be true for the project of effective altruism to be worthwhile and, indeed, a thing people should do: it seems like it could be the case that people who want to contribute to the common good should engage in the project of effective altruism simply because it could be the case that the highest impact actions are not those which people would typically do.
Hi David, just a very quick reply: I agree that if the first two premises were true, but the third were false, then EA would still be important in a sense, it’s just that everyone would already be doing EA, so we wouldn’t need a new movement to do it, and people wouldn’t increase their impact by learning about EA. I’m unsure about how best to handle this in the argument.
I agree that if the first two premises were true, but the third were false, then EA would still be important in a sense, it’s just that everyone would already be doing EA
Just to be clear, this is only a small part of my concern about it sounding like EA relies on assuming (and/or that EAs actually do assume) that the things which are high impact are not the things people typically already do.
One way this premise could be false, other than everyone being an EA already, is if it turns out that the kinds of things people who want to contribute to the common good typically do are actually the highest impact ways of contributing to the common good. i.e. we investigate, as effective altruists and it turns out that the kinds of things people typically do to contribute to the common good are (the) high(est) impact. [^1]
To the non-EA reader, it likely wouldn’t seem too unlikely that the kinds of things they typically do are actually high impact. So it may seem peculiar and unappealing for EAs to just assume [^2] that the kinds of things people typically do are not high impact.
[^1] A priori, one might think there are some reasons to presume in favour of this (and so against the EA premise), i.e. James Scott type reasons, deference to common opinion etc.
[^2] As noted, I don’t think you actually do think that EAs should assume this, but labelling it as a “premise” in the “rigorous argument for EA” certainly risks giving that impression.
It’s not entirely clear to me what this means (specifically what work the “can” is doing).
If you mean that it could be the case that we find high impact actions which we not the same are what people who want to contribute to the good would typically do, then I agree this seems plausible as a premise for engaging in the project of effective altruism.
If you mean that the premise is that we actually can find high impact actions which are not the same as what people who want to contribute to the common good typically do, then it’s not so clear to me that this should be a premise in the argument for effective altruism. This sounds like we are assuming what the results of our effective altruist efforts to search for the actions that do the most to contribute to the common good (relative to their cost) will be: that the things we discover are high impact will be different from what people typically do. But, of course, it could turn out to be the case that actually the highest impact actions are those which people typically do (our investigations could turn out to vindicate common sense, after all), so it doesn’t seem like this is something we should take as a premise for effective altruism. It also seems in tension with the idea (which I think is worth preserving) that effective altruism is a question (i.e. effective altruism itself doesn’t assume that particular kinds of things are or are not high impact).
I assume, however, that you don’t actually mean to state that effective altruists should assume this latter thing to be true or that one needs to assume this in order to support effective altruism. I’m presuming that you instead mean something like: this needs to be true for engaging in effective altruism to be successful/interesting/worthwhile. In line with this interpretation, you note in the interview something that I was going to raise as another objection: that if everyone were already acting in an effective altruist way, then it would be likely false that the high impact things we discover are different from those that people typically do.
If so, then it may not be false to say that “The high-impact actions we can find are not the same as what people who want to contribute to the common good typically do”, but it seems bound to lead to confusion, with people misreading this as EAs assuming that he highest impact things are not what people typically do. It’s also not clear that this premise needs to be true for the project of effective altruism to be worthwhile and, indeed, a thing people should do: it seems like it could be the case that people who want to contribute to the common good should engage in the project of effective altruism simply because it could be the case that the highest impact actions are not those which people would typically do.
Hi David, just a very quick reply: I agree that if the first two premises were true, but the third were false, then EA would still be important in a sense, it’s just that everyone would already be doing EA, so we wouldn’t need a new movement to do it, and people wouldn’t increase their impact by learning about EA. I’m unsure about how best to handle this in the argument.
Just to be clear, this is only a small part of my concern about it sounding like EA relies on assuming (and/or that EAs actually do assume) that the things which are high impact are not the things people typically already do.
One way this premise could be false, other than everyone being an EA already, is if it turns out that the kinds of things people who want to contribute to the common good typically do are actually the highest impact ways of contributing to the common good. i.e. we investigate, as effective altruists and it turns out that the kinds of things people typically do to contribute to the common good are (the) high(est) impact. [^1]
To the non-EA reader, it likely wouldn’t seem too unlikely that the kinds of things they typically do are actually high impact. So it may seem peculiar and unappealing for EAs to just assume [^2] that the kinds of things people typically do are not high impact.
[^1] A priori, one might think there are some reasons to presume in favour of this (and so against the EA premise), i.e. James Scott type reasons, deference to common opinion etc.
[^2] As noted, I don’t think you actually do think that EAs should assume this, but labelling it as a “premise” in the “rigorous argument for EA” certainly risks giving that impression.