Interesting, I think precisely the opposite. From my experience in government, this is where highly capable people lose ambition and go on to live lives of mediocrity, conformity and no impact. You learn to be a bureaucratic paper pusher who does as they are told and work 9-4 with lots of breaks and holidays and never has any metrics they need to hit.
I’m sure this comment will get downvoted but I think it at least needs to be out there.
I’m curious where in government your experience comes from. One issue in these conversations is that I think some people who feel they have a high impact job/opportunity in government want to be a bit quiet about it because doing otherwise could attract unnecessary hurdles from stakeholders/politicians who have interests against their goals. In contrast, those who have direct experience with low impact jobs at least don’t have that specific disincentive to talk about it. With that said I agree that government is extremely high variance.
Prior to EA, I worked with a political party/candidate in Canada (who was an MP and cabinet minister) and I also worked at the National Research Council of Canada.
The British civil service is really good for this. We don’t pay as much at a senior level as the private sector, so instead we put a lot of effort into creating a good work culture with lots of training and feedback (of course still varies between departments and managers!).
It’s also very easy to get experience presenting to boards or helping to hire people, and relatively easy to get management experience.
I have also heard this but i have also heard the complete opposite, that gov taught them to be able to do things quickly and not perfectly under pressure which is very valuable. I also think in general it has a high variability depending on personal fit and which department and manager you have. I will add that particularly in the animal space most organisations don’t know how to lobby due to a lack of people getting this insider experience. So i think civil service is great for SOME people and maybe more valuable for certain cause areas than others. But i tend to agree that we should lean into more people testing their fit to figure out where they land on working there or at least exploring this as a great career option and talk to some people before hand to work out whether they are likely to be a good fit
Career capital generally seems good for a variety of jobs in think tanks. You could also take a high-paying job as a lobbyist and earn-to-give. (Obviously you still want to be choosy what you are a lobbyist for, so as to not do actual harm with your job.)
I think the direct impact is underrated, especially if you can get to the Legislative Director level or something senior it does seem like some staff get a surprising amount of autonomy to pursue policies they care most about and that a lot of good policy is bottlenecked on having someone to champion it and aggressively push for it.
Also just want to add that lobbying is a very sought after skill in some EA cause areas (like animals) where there is a skill gap so you could also consider getting a role in an animal advocacy non profit after to help them make progress and not have to pay extortionate PA prices.
+1 to direct impact being underrated. But i do think that its not just any role that can be useful and that most of working in government is what you make out of it (networking, finding the highest leverage opportunities and connections etc.) not just getting a role.
I think many more junior people should consider careers in government.
Interesting, I think precisely the opposite. From my experience in government, this is where highly capable people lose ambition and go on to live lives of mediocrity, conformity and no impact. You learn to be a bureaucratic paper pusher who does as they are told and work 9-4 with lots of breaks and holidays and never has any metrics they need to hit.
I’m sure this comment will get downvoted but I think it at least needs to be out there.
I’m curious where in government your experience comes from. One issue in these conversations is that I think some people who feel they have a high impact job/opportunity in government want to be a bit quiet about it because doing otherwise could attract unnecessary hurdles from stakeholders/politicians who have interests against their goals. In contrast, those who have direct experience with low impact jobs at least don’t have that specific disincentive to talk about it. With that said I agree that government is extremely high variance.
Prior to EA, I worked with a political party/candidate in Canada (who was an MP and cabinet minister) and I also worked at the National Research Council of Canada.
Thanks!
The British civil service is really good for this. We don’t pay as much at a senior level as the private sector, so instead we put a lot of effort into creating a good work culture with lots of training and feedback (of course still varies between departments and managers!).
It’s also very easy to get experience presenting to boards or helping to hire people, and relatively easy to get management experience.
I’ve heard an EA say that working for the government was depressing and mostly taught them what not to do. Government can be really dysfunctional.
I have also heard this but i have also heard the complete opposite, that gov taught them to be able to do things quickly and not perfectly under pressure which is very valuable. I also think in general it has a high variability depending on personal fit and which department and manager you have. I will add that particularly in the animal space most organisations don’t know how to lobby due to a lack of people getting this insider experience. So i think civil service is great for SOME people and maybe more valuable for certain cause areas than others. But i tend to agree that we should lean into more people testing their fit to figure out where they land on working there or at least exploring this as a great career option and talk to some people before hand to work out whether they are likely to be a good fit
Yes I think the correct takeaway is that it’s high variance. I didn’t mean to say that all government jobs would be like that. :)
Can you elaborate on why? Is it the career capital, direct impact, or something else altogether?
Yes, I was thinking all of those:
Career capital generally seems good for a variety of jobs in think tanks. You could also take a high-paying job as a lobbyist and earn-to-give. (Obviously you still want to be choosy what you are a lobbyist for, so as to not do actual harm with your job.)
I think the direct impact is underrated, especially if you can get to the Legislative Director level or something senior it does seem like some staff get a surprising amount of autonomy to pursue policies they care most about and that a lot of good policy is bottlenecked on having someone to champion it and aggressively push for it.
Also just want to add that lobbying is a very sought after skill in some EA cause areas (like animals) where there is a skill gap so you could also consider getting a role in an animal advocacy non profit after to help them make progress and not have to pay extortionate PA prices.
+1 to direct impact being underrated. But i do think that its not just any role that can be useful and that most of working in government is what you make out of it (networking, finding the highest leverage opportunities and connections etc.) not just getting a role.