Yup, I understand that it was most probably the intention, but this post doesn’t do a good job stressing it enough in my opinion. It says that those are people who should consider not doing that in particular, but it’s not directed only to them. Plus, even if this post is directed only towards “not socially skilled men in a high position of power” asking them not to sleep around violates the same boundary- not mine, but it’s still against my values. Consensual relationship between adult people, as long as one of them is not a supervisor/senior/grant-maker of another, is none of community’s business, unless we are in church.
Consensual relationship between adult people, as long as one of them is not a supervisor/senior/grant-maker of another, is none of community’s business, unless we are in church.
But isn’t this sort of relationship exactly the one that OCB had with an anonymous woman which people one thread over are saying they’re feeling shocked, betrayed and undermined by?
There’s no suggestion that there was a violation of consent, only that there was an exchange between two friends who had a very frank relationship, and that OCB said something rather crude (for which he apologised). He at the time wasn’t a supervisor/grant-maker of the woman in question.
Yes, it was. Let me make it clear—there was still a significant power imbalance and he ignored it, which I believe is stupid. Regardless, my boundary stays exactly in the the same place. And for the context, I’ve experienced creepy people, unwanted sexual behavior and harassment many times (not in EA, to be clear), more than three times it was serious, some of the instances were when I was a minor. Still wouldn’t trade it for something I believe is (a soft version, but still) a purity culture, as such culture is something I’ve experienced as well and it harms more (and it would harm more not only me, but also other people if imposed, in my opinion). Moreover, I believe some of the harassment I’ve experienced was encouraged by such culture because imposing such rules also has serious, not always obvious consequences. I know that right now it may seem like a good thing to do, as many believe that recent situation was a fruit of “too much sexual freedom” and “sleeping around”, and you really want to try something even extreme to be safe. I’d say—it’s a trap. But feel free to try it, if you want and it’s good for you and your personal integrity, I honestly wish you the best. In the same time, I’m not going to support it, my boundary stays the same and I’m not going to change my actions. I’m going to keep sleeping around, and you have exactly the same power over it, as, for example, any type of church does—which is none or very little. If it turns out that I meet with a backlash or interacting with the community stops being for me, I’m ok with that.
I guess of the three conjunctions here “socially awkward men” is the one I’m least concerned about—or at the very least I suspect a lot of people reading this underestimate the level of social competency they can get away with, and I suspect it’s already a pretty self-punishing state of affairs
(I guess there’s also the thing where probably a lot of socially awkward men would make people more comfortable if they were more direct about romantic/sexual interest, and I kind of worry we’ll accidentally end up discouraging that)
Strongly agree with your general point – but I feel like you’re not the demographic this post is aimed at (i.e. not a socially-awkward man).
Yup, I understand that it was most probably the intention, but this post doesn’t do a good job stressing it enough in my opinion. It says that those are people who should consider not doing that in particular, but it’s not directed only to them.
Plus, even if this post is directed only towards “not socially skilled men in a high position of power” asking them not to sleep around violates the same boundary- not mine, but it’s still against my values. Consensual relationship between adult people, as long as one of them is not a supervisor/senior/grant-maker of another, is none of community’s business, unless we are in church.
But isn’t this sort of relationship exactly the one that OCB had with an anonymous woman which people one thread over are saying they’re feeling shocked, betrayed and undermined by?
There’s no suggestion that there was a violation of consent, only that there was an exchange between two friends who had a very frank relationship, and that OCB said something rather crude (for which he apologised). He at the time wasn’t a supervisor/grant-maker of the woman in question.
Yes, it was. Let me make it clear—there was still a significant power imbalance and he ignored it, which I believe is stupid.
Regardless, my boundary stays exactly in the the same place. And for the context, I’ve experienced creepy people, unwanted sexual behavior and harassment many times (not in EA, to be clear), more than three times it was serious, some of the instances were when I was a minor. Still wouldn’t trade it for something I believe is (a soft version, but still) a purity culture, as such culture is something I’ve experienced as well and it harms more (and it would harm more not only me, but also other people if imposed, in my opinion). Moreover, I believe some of the harassment I’ve experienced was encouraged by such culture because imposing such rules also has serious, not always obvious consequences. I know that right now it may seem like a good thing to do, as many believe that recent situation was a fruit of “too much sexual freedom” and “sleeping around”, and you really want to try something even extreme to be safe. I’d say—it’s a trap. But feel free to try it, if you want and it’s good for you and your personal integrity, I honestly wish you the best.
In the same time, I’m not going to support it, my boundary stays the same and I’m not going to change my actions. I’m going to keep sleeping around, and you have exactly the same power over it, as, for example, any type of church does—which is none or very little. If it turns out that I meet with a backlash or interacting with the community stops being for me, I’m ok with that.
I guess of the three conjunctions here “socially awkward men” is the one I’m least concerned about—or at the very least I suspect a lot of people reading this underestimate the level of social competency they can get away with, and I suspect it’s already a pretty self-punishing state of affairs
(I guess there’s also the thing where probably a lot of socially awkward men would make people more comfortable if they were more direct about romantic/sexual interest, and I kind of worry we’ll accidentally end up discouraging that)