It does look like there is an interpretation of EYs basic claims which is roughly reasonable and one which is clearly false and unreasonable, and you assumed he meant the clearly unreasonable thing and attack that.
I think absent further evidence, it’s fair for others to say “he couldn’t have possibly meant that” and move on.
As someone in the ‘general public rather than chemistry/physics PhD’ group, which Eliezer is saying he’s targeting, I definitely thought he meant that
That’s fair enough and levels of Background understanding vary (I don’t have a relevant PhD either), but then the criticism should be about this point being easily misunderstood rather than making a big deal about the strawman position being factually wrong. In which case it would also be much more constructive than adversarial criticism.
I think part of titotal’s point is it’s not the ‘strawman’ interpretation but the straightforward one, and having it framed that way would understandably be frustrating. It sounds like he also disagrees with Eliezer’s actual, badly communicated argument [edit: about the size of potential improvements on biology] anyway though? Based on the response to Habryka
Yeah, I think it would have been much better for him to say “proteins are shaped by...” rather than “proteins are held together by...”, and to give some context for what that means. Seems fair to criticize his communication. But the quotes and examples in the linked post are more consistent with him understanding that and wording it poorly, or assuming too much of his audience, rather than him not understanding that proteins use covalent bonds.
The selected quotes do give me the impression Eliezer is underestimating what nature can accomplish relative to design, but I haven’t read any of them in context so that doesn’t prove much.
It does look like there is an interpretation of EYs basic claims which is roughly reasonable and one which is clearly false and unreasonable, and you assumed he meant the clearly unreasonable thing and attack that. I think absent further evidence, it’s fair for others to say “he couldn’t have possibly meant that” and move on.
As someone in the ‘general public rather than chemistry/physics PhD’ group, which Eliezer is saying he’s targeting, I definitely thought he meant that
That’s fair enough and levels of Background understanding vary (I don’t have a relevant PhD either), but then the criticism should be about this point being easily misunderstood rather than making a big deal about the strawman position being factually wrong. In which case it would also be much more constructive than adversarial criticism.
I think part of titotal’s point is it’s not the ‘strawman’ interpretation but the straightforward one, and having it framed that way would understandably be frustrating. It sounds like he also disagrees with Eliezer’s actual, badly communicated argument [edit: about the size of potential improvements on biology] anyway though? Based on the response to Habryka
Yeah, I think it would have been much better for him to say “proteins are shaped by...” rather than “proteins are held together by...”, and to give some context for what that means. Seems fair to criticize his communication. But the quotes and examples in the linked post are more consistent with him understanding that and wording it poorly, or assuming too much of his audience, rather than him not understanding that proteins use covalent bonds.
The selected quotes do give me the impression Eliezer is underestimating what nature can accomplish relative to design, but I haven’t read any of them in context so that doesn’t prove much.