Well done on public correction! That’s always hard.
It’s key to separate out “social agency” from the rest of the concept, and coining that term makes this post worthwhile on its own. Your learned helplessness is interesting, because to me the core of agency is indeed nonsocial: fixing the thing yourself, thinking for yourself, writing a blog for yourself, taking responsibility for your own growth (including emotional growth, wisdom, patience, and yes chores).
has inside views
I think you mean “has strong inside views which overrule the outside view”. Inside views are innocuous if you simultaneously maintain an “all things considered” view.
Because of a quirk of the instructors and students that landed in our sample, ESPR 2021 went a little too hard on agency. We try to promote agency and wisdom in equal measure, which usually ends up sounding a lot like this post. Got there in the end!
Your learned helplessness is interesting, because to me the core of agency is indeed nonsocial
Yeah, the learned helplessness is a weird one. I felt kinda sad about it because I used to really pride myself on being self sufficient. I agree that the social part of agency should only be a small part—I think I leaned too far into it.
strong inside views which overrule the outside view
Thanks for the inside view correction. Changing that now, and will add that Owen originally coined social agency.
ESPR 2021 went a little too hard on agency
Fwiw I did get a lot of value out of the push for agency at ESPR. Before that, I was too far in the other direction. Eg: I was anxious that others would think I was “entitled” if I asked for anything or just did stuff; felt like I had to ask for permission for things; cared about not upsetting authority figures, like teachers. I think that I also cared about signalling that I was agreeable—and ESPR helped me get over this.
Wait, I’m not actually sure I want to change the inside view thing, I’m confused. I was kinda just describing a meme-y version of hustling—therefore the low-resolution version of “has inside views” is fine.
has strong inside views which overrule the outside view
“Having inside views”: just having your own opinion, whether or not you shout about it and whether or not you think that it’s better than the outside view.
“Having strong inside views...”: asserting your opinion when others disagree with it, including against the majority of people, majority of experts, etc.
(1) doesn’t seem that agenty to me, it’s just a natural effect of thinking for yourself. (2) is very agenty and high-status (and can be very useful to the group if it brings in decorrelated info), but needs to be earned.
Well done on public correction! That’s always hard.
It’s key to separate out “social agency” from the rest of the concept, and coining that term makes this post worthwhile on its own. Your learned helplessness is interesting, because to me the core of agency is indeed nonsocial: fixing the thing yourself, thinking for yourself, writing a blog for yourself, taking responsibility for your own growth (including emotional growth, wisdom, patience, and yes chores).
I think you mean “has strong inside views which overrule the outside view”. Inside views are innocuous if you simultaneously maintain an “all things considered” view.
Because of a quirk of the instructors and students that landed in our sample, ESPR 2021 went a little too hard on agency. We try to promote agency and wisdom in equal measure, which usually ends up sounding a lot like this post. Got there in the end!
Small nitpick: “social agency” coined by OCB in comments on the original.
Thanks :)
Yeah, the learned helplessness is a weird one. I felt kinda sad about it because I used to really pride myself on being self sufficient. I agree that the social part of agency should only be a small part—I think I leaned too far into it.
Thanks for the inside view correction. Changing that now, and will add that Owen originally coined social agency.
Fwiw I did get a lot of value out of the push for agency at ESPR. Before that, I was too far in the other direction. Eg: I was anxious that others would think I was “entitled” if I asked for anything or just did stuff; felt like I had to ask for permission for things; cared about not upsetting authority figures, like teachers. I think that I also cared about signalling that I was agreeable—and ESPR helped me get over this.
Wait, I’m not actually sure I want to change the inside view thing, I’m confused. I was kinda just describing a meme-y version of hustling—therefore the low-resolution version of “has inside views” is fine.
I’m not really sure what you mean by this.
“Having inside views”: just having your own opinion, whether or not you shout about it and whether or not you think that it’s better than the outside view.
“Having strong inside views...”: asserting your opinion when others disagree with it, including against the majority of people, majority of experts, etc.
(1) doesn’t seem that agenty to me, it’s just a natural effect of thinking for yourself. (2) is very agenty and high-status (and can be very useful to the group if it brings in decorrelated info), but needs to be earned.
Hmm, interesting. Thanks for clarifying, that does work better in this context (although it’s confusing if you don’t have the info above)
Some quotes on agency that I liked, which I think is more representative of the “do it yourself” attitude.