I don’t want to spend too much time on this so won’t answer to all points, but I wanted to point you to some examples for this bit about evasiveness by saying things like, “I don’t know what this is referring to”:
I’d be interested to hear examples (genuinely)
See the transcript here: the word “referring” occurs 30 times and at least a couple of those times strike me as the weasel-like suspicious behavior of someone whose approach to answering questions is “never admit to anything unless you learn that they already have the evidence.” So, he always answers first with “not sure/don’t know what you refer to/don’t remember” and only admits to things when shown evidence.
This behavior is strikingly abnormal and different from how a person who doesn’t have anything to hide would behave.
(Edit – and again, it seems to me like it’s different from autistic literal-mindedness! Literally answering the question would mean to comb your memory and answer without regard for what the prosecution is referring to. It would also include saying confidently “no” if you’re sure you never said something.)
Someone trustworthy would answer questions immediately, sometimes admitting to things that the prosecution may not already know.
Some examples:
Q. You also marketed FTX as a safe crypto exchange compared to your competitors, didn’t you?
A. With FTX US I think that may be the case. I am not sure about FTX International.
Q. Did you or did you not market FTX International as safe compared to other crypto exchanges?
A. I don’t specifically remember that. I am not sure.
MS. SASSOON: If we could pull up Government Exhibit 900
A. The government offers Government Exhibit 900
THE COURT: Hearing no objection, it’s received. (Government Exhibit 900A received in evidence)
MR. COHEN: I thought it was in already.
THE COURT: No harm, no foul.
MS. SASSOON: I believe the full video is in. This is just a screenshot. Mr. Bianco, if you could publish that, please. We can go ahead and take that down.
Q. You publicly described FTX as the most regulated crypto MBAN3 exchange by far, didn’t you?
A. I think that’s right.
Q. And you also acted like you cared about customer protections, right?
A. I think I did care about them, yes.
Q. And you made public statements to that effect, didn’t you?
A. I probably did.
Q. I didn’t hear you.
A. I probably did.
Q. Yes or no, do you recall making statements that you cared about customer protections?
A. Yes.
Q. In fact, over and over again in public forums you described FTX platform as safe, correct?
A. I am not sure specifically what that is referring to. I may have.
Q. Yes or no, do you recall making numerous public statements to the effect that the FTX platform was safe?
A. I recall with respect to FTX US. It may be true with respect to FTX International, but I don’t specifically recall, no.
Q. You were CEO of FTX International, yes?
A. Yes.
Q. Sitting here today, you cannot recall one way or the other whether you made public statements that FTX was a safe MBAN3 platform? 1
A. I am not sure exactly what you are referring to. I made a lot of public statements.
Q. Yes or no, do you recall making public statements that FTX was a safe platform?
A. I can’t think of a specific one off the top of my head.
Q. Generally, do you recall in substance making statements that FTX was a safe platform?
MR. COHEN: Objection.
THE COURT: Overruled.
A. Some things that were sort of like that, yes. I am not sure exactly what you are referring to. But I am not saying —
THE COURT: Mr. Bankman-Fried, the issue is not what she is referring to. Please answer the question.
Q. Putting aside what I’m referring to, I’m asking whether you recall making statements as CEO of FTX that in substance stated that the FTX platform was safe.
A. I remember things around specific parts of the FTX platform that were related to that. I don’t remember a general statement to that effect. I am not sure there wasn’t one.
Q. In media interviews isn’t it true that you insisted on that FTX had protections for retail customers?
A. Yup.
Q. You told your customers that users’ funds and safety come MBAN3 first, didn’t you?
A. Something to that effect, yes. 2
Q. And you also made statements that you would always allow withdrawals, didn’t you?
A. Yup.
MS. SASSOON: If we could pull up what’s marked as Government Exhibit 829. The government offers Government Exhibit 829.
MR. COHEN: No objection.
THE COURT: Received. (Government Exhibit 829 received in evidence)
MS. SASSOON: Mr. Bianco, can you publish that.
Q. Mr. Bankman-Fried, can you read the first line of your tweet from August 9, 2021.
A. Sure. And, as always, our users’ funds and safety come first.
Q. Beneath that do you see where it says, we will always allow withdrawals except in cases of suspected money laundering/theft/etc.?
A. Yup.
MS. SASSOON: We can take that down.
[...]
Q. You also claimed that FTX had a conservative approach to managing risk, didn’t you?
A. OnóóI’m not sure exactly what that was referring to.
Q. You don’t recall saying that?
A. I don’t remember the context.
Q. Do you recall saying that in any context?
A. I’m not confident.
[...]
Q. So is it your testimony that as CEO of FTX, after this catastrophic event, you did not learn the details of the code change that you directed?
A. That’s correct. I trusted Gary and Nishad.
Q. You testified on direct that FTX had an AWS database, correct?
A. Yup.
Q. And you described its content, right? For example, it stored customer account information?
A. Yup, that’s right.
Q. And it had information about trades?
A. Yup.
Q. And customer balances?
A. Yup.
Q. And as CEO, you had access to the database, correct?
A. Nope.
Q. Your testimony is that you did not have the ability to access the database?
A. I never did. To my knowledge, I didn’t have access to it.
Q. I’m asking you whether you had authorization to search the database.
A. I have no idea whether someone had created an account in my name that in theory was designed for me. If so, I never used it.
Q. And so it’s your testimony that until October 2022, you never looked in the database.
A. That’s correct. And even as of then, I never looked in the AWS database.
Q. After FTX declared bankruptcy, isn’t it true that one of the first things you did was try to restore your administrative access to the AWS database?
A. That’s not how I would put it.
Q. Isn’t it true that in the weeks following the bankruptcy, you asked to have your access to the AWS database restored?
A. NotóóI was not specifically looking for my personal access to the AWS database.
Q. Isn’t it true you were requesting AWS access?
A. I was requesting it on behalf of the joint provisional liquidators in the Bahamas.
Q. So yes or no: You made requests to restore access to the AWS database?
A. I’m not sure exactly what you’re referring to here.
THE COURT: Look, could you just answer the question instead of trying to ask the questioner what she’s referring to? THE WITNESS: Okay.
A. No.
Q. Isn’t it true that you made to-do lists after FTX’s 4 collapse that included things like “try to get AWS access”?
A. Probably.
Q. And so isn’t it true that you were trying to get AWS access after FTX declared bankruptcy?
A. Yes.
To me, the focus on “What this is referring to” is illuminating because it shows how SBF is laser-focused on what the prosecution has on him. What’s strikingly absent is a desire to try hard at remembering so he can tell as much of the truth as possible.
Thanks for going to the trouble of sourcing these quotes.
To me, the focus on “What this is referring to” is illuminating because it shows how SBF is laser-focused on what the prosecution has on him. What’s strikingly absent is a desire to try hard at remembering so he can tell as much of the truth as possible.
I mean, in the “practice” cross-examination, I think he was frequently rebuked for guessing at what the prosecutor meant or sharing information beyond a short, binary, direct answer to the question the prosecutor (thought she) was asking. For example, “A. And by “go negative,” you’re talking about negative in a particular coin or negative net asset value? Q. Just have a negative balance, Mr. Bankman-Fried. A. Sorry. I— … THE COURT: … I’ve gotten beyond my tether here. … part of the problem is that the witness has what I’ll simply call an interesting way of responding to questions for the moment. Q. Mr. Bankman-Fried, in May of 2022, were you aware that account ID 9 @AlamedaResearch.com could have an overall negative value? A. I am giving you my best guess at answering the question. Q. I’m not asking for a guess. I’m asking what you understood at the time. A. I am going to answer what I think the question you are asking is, but I apologize if I’m answering the wrong question.” I think the precise question she intends to ask here is extremely important, but she won’t specify (or doesn’t understand that she needs to.) It’s a very complicated case and the details matter. If Alameda’s trading accounts collectively had a net liability of billions to FTX for an extended period with no uncorrelated collateral, then they “borrowed” billions here in the way ~everyone thinks they did. But if one subaccount was temporarily negative $3 billion in a particular coin while another subaccount was temporarily positive $4 billion in another coin and it’s mostly for market-making purposes, then the sense in which Alameda was “borrowing” $3 billion via its customer accounts is extremely different.
And then there are plenty of reports of how when SBF gave extra information that wasn’t asked for, that was surely “evading questions, trying to pour forth verbiage to distract Sassoon from what she’d asked.” (from here)
Perhaps we’re understanding the term “referring” differently—I hear it as “I don’t understand exactly what you’re asking me (and if I guess wrong you might make me look like a liar)” while you might be hearing it as “I don’t know which of the many pieces of supporting evidence have prompted you to ask this question and I don’t want to reveal more than you already know about.”
Taking the first example of “referring to” in your comment, we have:
Q. In fact, over and over again in public forums you described FTX platform as safe, correct?
A. I am not sure specifically what that is referring to. I may have.
I’m picturing his thought process as something like, “I think I used the word ‘safe’ multiple times in public forums in reference to FTX U.S. If that is what she’s referring to then my answer is ‘Probably.’ But maybe she’s referring to that tweet someone else wrote using the FTX Twitter account that said FTX International was safer than Binance. And I can’t think of any times I’ve actually described FTX International with the word ‘safe’ and I don’t think I would have said that, so what do I say? If I say ‘Yes’ then I’m giving the impression that I said something bad that I don’t think I said, but if I say ‘No’ then she might bring up that tweet and make me look like a liar.”
I think that’s how my mind would respond anyway, given the way other interactions had gone. For example, “Q. Now do you remember telling Zeke Faux in early 2022 that Alameda played by the same rules as other traders? A. Not in that wording, no. Q. So you don’t recall that. A. No. Q. Do you recall telling him that in other wording? A. I recall saying that Alameda wasn’t front running other customers, that its trading access was like other customers.” If SBF had given a straight “no”—because he did not in fact make the claim that the prosecutor is heavily implying he did—and then the prosecutor had shown the jury a quote from Faux paraphrasing SBF that was taken out of context, would that have been perjury? I would definitely have been wary of giving yes/no answers to imprecise or misleading questions.
It would also include saying confidently “no” if you’re sure you never said something.
Who is ever sure they never said something? I’m not sure why you and I disagree here. I feel like the “normal” way to answer questions about things you may or may not have said a year or so ago is to say “yes” when you’re >50% sure you said it and “no” otherwise. Or, perhaps when testifying in your own defense, to just say “yes” every time you get the sense the prosecutor is about to pull out some written record of you saying it, even when that’s technically lying because you don’t actually remember, because it’s not worth the risk. But I think literal-minded people will feel very uncomfortable having only those two options and would rather say “I don’t recall”, especially if in squeezing their 25% confidence into a “no” only to get proven otherwise would constitute perjury.
I don’t know which of the lines above are the 2+ suspicious ones, but none of them strike me as such.
I don’t want to spend too much time on this so won’t answer to all points, but I wanted to point you to some examples for this bit about evasiveness by saying things like, “I don’t know what this is referring to”:
See the transcript here: the word “referring” occurs 30 times and at least a couple of those times strike me as the weasel-like suspicious behavior of someone whose approach to answering questions is “never admit to anything unless you learn that they already have the evidence.” So, he always answers first with “not sure/don’t know what you refer to/don’t remember” and only admits to things when shown evidence.
This behavior is strikingly abnormal and different from how a person who doesn’t have anything to hide would behave.
(Edit – and again, it seems to me like it’s different from autistic literal-mindedness! Literally answering the question would mean to comb your memory and answer without regard for what the prosecution is referring to. It would also include saying confidently “no” if you’re sure you never said something.)
Someone trustworthy would answer questions immediately, sometimes admitting to things that the prosecution may not already know.
Some examples:
[...]
[...]
To me, the focus on “What this is referring to” is illuminating because it shows how SBF is laser-focused on what the prosecution has on him. What’s strikingly absent is a desire to try hard at remembering so he can tell as much of the truth as possible.
Thanks for going to the trouble of sourcing these quotes.
I mean, in the “practice” cross-examination, I think he was frequently rebuked for guessing at what the prosecutor meant or sharing information beyond a short, binary, direct answer to the question the prosecutor (thought she) was asking. For example, “A. And by “go negative,” you’re talking about negative in a particular coin or negative net asset value? Q. Just have a negative balance, Mr. Bankman-Fried. A. Sorry. I— … THE COURT: … I’ve gotten beyond my tether here. … part of the problem is that the witness has what I’ll simply call an interesting way of responding to questions for the moment. Q. Mr. Bankman-Fried, in May of 2022, were you aware that account ID 9 @AlamedaResearch.com could have an overall negative value? A. I am giving you my best guess at answering the question. Q. I’m not asking for a guess. I’m asking what you understood at the time. A. I am going to answer what I think the question you are asking is, but I apologize if I’m answering the wrong question.” I think the precise question she intends to ask here is extremely important, but she won’t specify (or doesn’t understand that she needs to.) It’s a very complicated case and the details matter. If Alameda’s trading accounts collectively had a net liability of billions to FTX for an extended period with no uncorrelated collateral, then they “borrowed” billions here in the way ~everyone thinks they did. But if one subaccount was temporarily negative $3 billion in a particular coin while another subaccount was temporarily positive $4 billion in another coin and it’s mostly for market-making purposes, then the sense in which Alameda was “borrowing” $3 billion via its customer accounts is extremely different.
And then there are plenty of reports of how when SBF gave extra information that wasn’t asked for, that was surely “evading questions, trying to pour forth verbiage to distract Sassoon from what she’d asked.” (from here)
Perhaps we’re understanding the term “referring” differently—I hear it as “I don’t understand exactly what you’re asking me (and if I guess wrong you might make me look like a liar)” while you might be hearing it as “I don’t know which of the many pieces of supporting evidence have prompted you to ask this question and I don’t want to reveal more than you already know about.”
Taking the first example of “referring to” in your comment, we have:
I’m picturing his thought process as something like, “I think I used the word ‘safe’ multiple times in public forums in reference to FTX U.S. If that is what she’s referring to then my answer is ‘Probably.’ But maybe she’s referring to that tweet someone else wrote using the FTX Twitter account that said FTX International was safer than Binance. And I can’t think of any times I’ve actually described FTX International with the word ‘safe’ and I don’t think I would have said that, so what do I say? If I say ‘Yes’ then I’m giving the impression that I said something bad that I don’t think I said, but if I say ‘No’ then she might bring up that tweet and make me look like a liar.”
I think that’s how my mind would respond anyway, given the way other interactions had gone. For example, “Q. Now do you remember telling Zeke Faux in early 2022 that Alameda played by the same rules as other traders? A. Not in that wording, no. Q. So you don’t recall that. A. No. Q. Do you recall telling him that in other wording? A. I recall saying that Alameda wasn’t front running other customers, that its trading access was like other customers.” If SBF had given a straight “no”—because he did not in fact make the claim that the prosecutor is heavily implying he did—and then the prosecutor had shown the jury a quote from Faux paraphrasing SBF that was taken out of context, would that have been perjury? I would definitely have been wary of giving yes/no answers to imprecise or misleading questions.
Who is ever sure they never said something? I’m not sure why you and I disagree here. I feel like the “normal” way to answer questions about things you may or may not have said a year or so ago is to say “yes” when you’re >50% sure you said it and “no” otherwise. Or, perhaps when testifying in your own defense, to just say “yes” every time you get the sense the prosecutor is about to pull out some written record of you saying it, even when that’s technically lying because you don’t actually remember, because it’s not worth the risk. But I think literal-minded people will feel very uncomfortable having only those two options and would rather say “I don’t recall”, especially if in squeezing their 25% confidence into a “no” only to get proven otherwise would constitute perjury.
I don’t know which of the lines above are the 2+ suspicious ones, but none of them strike me as such.