Reading @weeatquince’s comment, I basically match their description for “bad people”. It was both surprising and frustrating?
I don’t think you do! It seems like you have a desire to be transparent about your motivations and concerned about what others expect of you. These are the sort of things that couldn’t be further away from the picture I get when I read weeatquince’s comment. The place in the comment where they mention “bad person/people” is here:
Zero tolerance to funding bad people. Sometimes an org might be tempted to fund or hire someone they know / have reason to expect it is a bad person or primarily seeking power or prestige not impact. Maybe this person has relevant skills and can do a lot of good. Maybe on a naïve utilitarian calculus it looks good to hire them as we can pay them for impact. I think there is a case to be heavily risk adverse here and avoid hiring or funding such people.
When I read this and upvoted the comment, I didn’t mean to discourage (with my upvote) all the people who don’t have effective altruism as their primary life goal. Instead, I interpreted weeatquince as follows:
Bad people := “people whose cognition is constantly optimizing* for ‘how do I come across?’ and ‘how can I advance?,’ so much so that their reasoning about how to have impact is careless, inauthentic, or even deceptive.”
(I’m talking about levels of carelessness, inauthenticity, or deception that are way beyond anything that’s in the middle of the range for people in EA or rationality, given that our brains generally weren’t selected for self-understanding and honesty very much.)
(I’d add that it doesn’t matter much whether cognition is conscious, semi-conscious or unconscious. It matters more if there’s potential for it to change/improve, but I’d say that if this potential is there, I wouldn’t consider the label “bad person” appropriate in the first place!)
The point being: You don’t sound like that!
(I also think it’s common for “bad people” to claim they’re highly altruistic. (Though sometimes you get “bad people” who give you subtle warnings – e.g., the scene in Game of Thrones where Littlefinger tells Ned Stark “Distrusting me was the wisest thing you’ve done since you climbed off your horse.”))
I think it’s good that you wrote this post. I would strongly disagree if weeatquince meant it the other way – for the reasons you mention! Even if not, it would suck if more people feel less welcome based on a misunderstanding.
*I don’t think it’s necessarily bad if someone is highly self-conscious (in a socially strategic way) in their interactions with others. Instead, what matters is whether they have an equally serious commitment to truth and integrity so that when they reason about how to have impact (around people whose entire life is built around having the most impact!), they feel responsible to not want to distort others’ epistemics or mess up their efforts. (This includes being careful to double-check their reasoning and maybe even flag conflicts of interest whenever they find themselves advocating for self-serving conclusions.)
I don’t think you do! It seems like you have a desire to be transparent about your motivations and concerned about what others expect of you. These are the sort of things that couldn’t be further away from the picture I get when I read weeatquince’s comment. The place in the comment where they mention “bad person/people” is here:
When I read this and upvoted the comment, I didn’t mean to discourage (with my upvote) all the people who don’t have effective altruism as their primary life goal. Instead, I interpreted weeatquince as follows:
Bad people := “people whose cognition is constantly optimizing* for ‘how do I come across?’ and ‘how can I advance?,’ so much so that their reasoning about how to have impact is careless, inauthentic, or even deceptive.”
(I’m talking about levels of carelessness, inauthenticity, or deception that are way beyond anything that’s in the middle of the range for people in EA or rationality, given that our brains generally weren’t selected for self-understanding and honesty very much.)
(I’d add that it doesn’t matter much whether cognition is conscious, semi-conscious or unconscious. It matters more if there’s potential for it to change/improve, but I’d say that if this potential is there, I wouldn’t consider the label “bad person” appropriate in the first place!)
The point being: You don’t sound like that!
(I also think it’s common for “bad people” to claim they’re highly altruistic. (Though sometimes you get “bad people” who give you subtle warnings – e.g., the scene in Game of Thrones where Littlefinger tells Ned Stark “Distrusting me was the wisest thing you’ve done since you climbed off your horse.”))
I think it’s good that you wrote this post. I would strongly disagree if weeatquince meant it the other way – for the reasons you mention! Even if not, it would suck if more people feel less welcome based on a misunderstanding.
*I don’t think it’s necessarily bad if someone is highly self-conscious (in a socially strategic way) in their interactions with others. Instead, what matters is whether they have an equally serious commitment to truth and integrity so that when they reason about how to have impact (around people whose entire life is built around having the most impact!), they feel responsible to not want to distort others’ epistemics or mess up their efforts. (This includes being careful to double-check their reasoning and maybe even flag conflicts of interest whenever they find themselves advocating for self-serving conclusions.)