Hm I guess that’s true. I guess I thought it went without saying that it would be when people want anonymity, I didn’t imagine there could be an alternative where CH removes names even if the complainant doesn’t request it. That would indeed be worse and a true “default” and I hope no one took that as what I meant.
But I think CH asks complainants what degree of anonymity and detail-sharing they are comfortable with by default. And I think a lot of people ask them to not give details, and by default CH does defer to that preference to what might be an abnormal extent, such that anonymity may be functionally the default in our culture and their dealings. But yeah I guess I wonder about hard numbers. It is striking to me that not one person was willing to have the details of the incident shared with Steve though
I assumed the mock-incident was just meant to illustrate how it might arise that someone doesn’t get full information, and it’s easier to get that point across if you have it as everyone requesting anonymity.
On the real world point, I do agree that if what happens is something like ‘CEA: do you want anonymity? Complainant: uh sure, might as well’, then that seems suboptimal. Though I’m not sure I could come up with any system that’s better overall.
Fair, that is a mock incident, but I don’t see that aspect as being dramatized or anything. Fwiw I have known multiple people whose experiences basically matched Steve’s.
I just think if we are going to talk about doxxing Alice and Chloe we might want to think what it might look like if they had gone elsewhere, or what it might look like in the future if they unduly report others. And as a community I think it must be reckoned with why some people feel upset right now at the protection that reporters face when accused get so few protections, not even the protection to know details of the claims against them. And a cultural standard where names of people who make provably false accusations are revealed could protect all of us. So I think it is worth reckoning with. Even though I came out supporting non-doxxing in this case
I think it’s important to separate out how CH handled the allegations vs how Ben did. IMO CH’s actions (banning presenting at EAG but not attending, recommending a contract be used) were quite measured, and of a completely different magnitude than making public anonymous allegations. And I think this whole situation would have been significantly improved if Ben had adopted CEA’s policy of not taking further actions if restrictions are requested.
Hm I guess that’s true. I guess I thought it went without saying that it would be when people want anonymity, I didn’t imagine there could be an alternative where CH removes names even if the complainant doesn’t request it. That would indeed be worse and a true “default” and I hope no one took that as what I meant.
But I think CH asks complainants what degree of anonymity and detail-sharing they are comfortable with by default. And I think a lot of people ask them to not give details, and by default CH does defer to that preference to what might be an abnormal extent, such that anonymity may be functionally the default in our culture and their dealings. But yeah I guess I wonder about hard numbers. It is striking to me that not one person was willing to have the details of the incident shared with Steve though
I assumed the mock-incident was just meant to illustrate how it might arise that someone doesn’t get full information, and it’s easier to get that point across if you have it as everyone requesting anonymity.
On the real world point, I do agree that if what happens is something like ‘CEA: do you want anonymity? Complainant: uh sure, might as well’, then that seems suboptimal. Though I’m not sure I could come up with any system that’s better overall.
Fair, that is a mock incident, but I don’t see that aspect as being dramatized or anything. Fwiw I have known multiple people whose experiences basically matched Steve’s.
I just think if we are going to talk about doxxing Alice and Chloe we might want to think what it might look like if they had gone elsewhere, or what it might look like in the future if they unduly report others. And as a community I think it must be reckoned with why some people feel upset right now at the protection that reporters face when accused get so few protections, not even the protection to know details of the claims against them. And a cultural standard where names of people who make provably false accusations are revealed could protect all of us. So I think it is worth reckoning with. Even though I came out supporting non-doxxing in this case
I think it’s important to separate out how CH handled the allegations vs how Ben did. IMO CH’s actions (banning presenting at EAG but not attending, recommending a contract be used) were quite measured, and of a completely different magnitude than making public anonymous allegations. And I think this whole situation would have been significantly improved if Ben had adopted CEA’s policy of not taking further actions if restrictions are requested.