I think there is a lot going on. For one, kids are equipped to deceive but are not equipped to learn when to deceive. So to learn how deceit/trust works in social settings they have to experiment on their parents—you often catch your kids silently raiding the candy cupboard in the kitchen. So that kind of makes you skeptical of them. Then I think there is a cultural thing where it is ok not to trust your kids that much. This I feel less sure about the validity of, but I think it is a thing. If your boss would have as little trust in you as the average parent has in their child, I think it would feel terrible (I am not insinuating anything about the author here, this is just general observations of young families). I think there is more to it too (including language as Kirsten pointed out) and kids seem to cope well even though they often do not get much trust—maybe kids are emotionally equipped to deal with not being trusted that much—they are pretty happy go lucky. And I am sure there are many more aspects I am missing, like the parents being exhausted, etc.
My five-year-old Earnie generally doesn’t lie. For example, if I ask, “Why is Teddy crying?” he will say, “I took the bike from him”. He sometimes does “tricking,” but usually that’s something very silly and obvious. (Note: I can imagine looking back at this in a few months and being surprised. Things often go in phases with kids.)
I think he learned about deceit and trust, at least in part because I make a point of not lying to my kids. When they are skeptical of something I’ve said, I’ll ask them, “Do I lie?” and they will reflect and say, “Mommy doesn’t lie.”
Our 3-year-old seems not quite on the no-lying page yet (he seems to enjoy it and giggles about it sometimes). Recently, he has seemed to treat pinky promises with more reverence, but we’ll see.
I’m curious if you remember how you felt about these things as a child, or where you get this model of kids’ psychology from? as this was basically the opposite of my experience as a kid.
I should maybe have made it clearer that I am speaking to a large part from my own experience. That said I have done lay reading of psychology and combined with quite consistent observations of multiple kids I feel quite sure about some claims (like the need to develop skill in when to deceit/how to build trust). Other claims I feel less certain about, like that they are more equipped than adults to not be trusted. I should probably have made it clearer how certain I was about each of the claims and what, if any, research or observations underpinned each of my claims. Thanks for holding me accountable on my epistemics! I also recognize after reading your comment that there is a lot of diversity in kids and perhaps there are kids that suffer a great deal from not being trusted, and kids that might not actually choose to engage much in deceitful behavior. And perhaps it reflects on my own failing as a parent haha!
Yeah the point about needing to learn the relevant skills/norms makes sense to me. I just feel nervous about assuming that because a kid doesn’t seem to be negatively affected by their parents being suspicious of them, that they aren’t—knowing how much of a negative effect from another person on your wellbeing and sense of self you ought to tolerate is also a thing to be learned.
If your boss would have as little trust in you as the average parent has in their child, I think it would feel terrible
On the other hand, if you lied to your boss as frequently and blatantly as most kids lie to their parents, you should expect not to keep your job for long. In other words, the trust may be lower, but the consequences/expectations are also lower.
I think there is a lot going on. For one, kids are equipped to deceive but are not equipped to learn when to deceive. So to learn how deceit/trust works in social settings they have to experiment on their parents—you often catch your kids silently raiding the candy cupboard in the kitchen. So that kind of makes you skeptical of them. Then I think there is a cultural thing where it is ok not to trust your kids that much. This I feel less sure about the validity of, but I think it is a thing. If your boss would have as little trust in you as the average parent has in their child, I think it would feel terrible (I am not insinuating anything about the author here, this is just general observations of young families). I think there is more to it too (including language as Kirsten pointed out) and kids seem to cope well even though they often do not get much trust—maybe kids are emotionally equipped to deal with not being trusted that much—they are pretty happy go lucky. And I am sure there are many more aspects I am missing, like the parents being exhausted, etc.
My five-year-old Earnie generally doesn’t lie. For example, if I ask, “Why is Teddy crying?” he will say, “I took the bike from him”. He sometimes does “tricking,” but usually that’s something very silly and obvious. (Note: I can imagine looking back at this in a few months and being surprised. Things often go in phases with kids.)
I think he learned about deceit and trust, at least in part because I make a point of not lying to my kids. When they are skeptical of something I’ve said, I’ll ask them, “Do I lie?” and they will reflect and say, “Mommy doesn’t lie.”
Our 3-year-old seems not quite on the no-lying page yet (he seems to enjoy it and giggles about it sometimes). Recently, he has seemed to treat pinky promises with more reverence, but we’ll see.
I’m curious if you remember how you felt about these things as a child, or where you get this model of kids’ psychology from? as this was basically the opposite of my experience as a kid.
I should maybe have made it clearer that I am speaking to a large part from my own experience. That said I have done lay reading of psychology and combined with quite consistent observations of multiple kids I feel quite sure about some claims (like the need to develop skill in when to deceit/how to build trust). Other claims I feel less certain about, like that they are more equipped than adults to not be trusted. I should probably have made it clearer how certain I was about each of the claims and what, if any, research or observations underpinned each of my claims. Thanks for holding me accountable on my epistemics! I also recognize after reading your comment that there is a lot of diversity in kids and perhaps there are kids that suffer a great deal from not being trusted, and kids that might not actually choose to engage much in deceitful behavior. And perhaps it reflects on my own failing as a parent haha!
Yeah the point about needing to learn the relevant skills/norms makes sense to me. I just feel nervous about assuming that because a kid doesn’t seem to be negatively affected by their parents being suspicious of them, that they aren’t—knowing how much of a negative effect from another person on your wellbeing and sense of self you ought to tolerate is also a thing to be learned.
Good points!
On the other hand, if you lied to your boss as frequently and blatantly as most kids lie to their parents, you should expect not to keep your job for long. In other words, the trust may be lower, but the consequences/expectations are also lower.