āI know that I often antagonize people by accident.ā
I think something that could help (maybe) is making the other person feel understood. Showing that you understand where they come from, that what the other says really makes sense for them, but that you have found some other way of seeing things that also makes sense. Direct accusations of doing stuff poorly rarely works, and comes off as judgemental. Itās better if you want to let people (have you read How to make friends by Dale Carnegie? Not perfect but gives some valuable insight). (Not sure Iām doing that with you, but you donāt seem to need it ^^)
āIām highly confident that EAers broadly disagree with [the topic of misquoting], which is why I wrote that article.ā
Still, 22 minutes is way too long. I read it for 5 minutes and did not feel this as a valuable use of my timeāmost of it was on the analogy with ādeadnamingā but I think this derailed from the topic. This also greatly needed a structure like an executive summary style. Or a structure like 1) hereās an example of a misquote leading to a bad outcome 2) Miquoting in general poses problems 3) The EA forums needs to enfore rules against misquotes (and hereās how).
āWhen I said itās learnable, I meant learnable in a way that you like it, donāt have motivation problems, arenāt bored, it isnāt sluggish, everything works well.ā
Wow, this means you could have an entire class of people, including ones who have trouble with maths (with like say complex equations), and you ād be able to teach them to do maths in ways they like ? That would be very impressive! Iād like to learn more, do you have sources on that ?
āWhen I said itās learnable, I meant learnable in a way that you like it, donāt have motivation problems, arenāt bored, it isnāt sluggish, everything works well.ā
Wow, this means you could have an entire class of people, including ones who have trouble with maths (with like say complex equations), and you ād be able to teach them to do maths in ways they like ? That would be very impressive! Iād like to learn more, do you have sources on that ?
I have multiple types of writing (and videos) related to this:
educational and skill-building materials (e.g. grammar trees, text analysis or tutoring videos)
writing about how learning works (e.g. practice and mastery)
writing about epistemology ā key philosophical concepts behind the other stuff
writing about why some opposing views (like genetic IQ) are mistaken
Iāve been developing and debating these ideas for many years, and I donāt know of any refutations or counter-examples to my claims, but Iām not popular/āinfluential and have not gotten very many people to try my ideas much.
In terms of the subject matter itself, math is one of the better starting points. However, people often have some other stuff that gets in the way like issues with procrastination, motivation, project management, sleep schedule, ālazinessā, planning ahead, time preference, resource budgeting (including mental energy), self-awareness, emotions, drug use (including caffeine, alcohol or nicotine), or clashes between their conscious ideas and intuitions/āsubconscious ideas. These things can be disruptive to math learning, so they may need to be addressed first. In other words, if one is conflicted about learning math ā if part of them wants to and part doesnāt ā then they may need to deal with that before studying math. There are also a lot of people who are mentally tired most of the time and they need to improve that situation rather than undertake a new project involving lots of thinking.
Also most current educational materials for math, like most topics, are not very good. It takes significant skill or help to deal with that.
There is an issue where, basically, most people donāt believe me that I have important knowledge and wonāt listen. Initial skepticism is totally reasonable but I think what should happen next, from at least a few people, is a truth seeking process like a debate using rational methods instead of just ignoring something, on the assumption itās probably wrong, with no attempt to identify any error. That way people can find errors in my ideas, or not, and either way someone can learn something.
Sounds like quite the challenge to learn maths ! I can understand why āyou need to be really motivated and allocate a lot of time and resources and to avoid coffee and alcohol and cigarettes and to solve your problems of sleep and procrastination and emotions in order to learn mathsā leads to not many people really learning maths !
I wouldnāt count on many people learning these skills in such a context.
And I though the issue was only because the educational material was poor.
Ok, then Iām not sure learning maths is the most valuable use of my time right now. Especially since I mostly aggregate the work of other experts and I let them do the research and the maths in my stead.
(Although Iād still be interested by the links in case that proves necessary for my research at some point in the future. Maybe the āhow learning worksā material could be of interest too)
I wouldnāt count on many people learning these skills in such a context.
Each individual thing is a solvable problem. But, yes, I donāt expect many people to solve a long list of problems. But I still claim it is possible.
On these few other points:
I think something that could help (maybe) is making the other person feel understood. Showing that you understand where they come from, that what the other says really makes sense for them, but that you have found some other way of seeing things that also makes sense.
Direct accusations of doing stuff poorly rarely works, and comes off as judgemental. Itās better if you want to let people (have you read How to make friends by Dale Carnegie? Not perfect but gives some valuable insight).
(Not sure Iām doing that with you, but you donāt seem to need it ^^)
Still, 22 minutes is way too long. I read it for 5 minutes and did not feel this as a valuable use of my timeāmost of it was on the analogy with ādeadnamingā but I think this derailed from the topic. This also greatly needed a structure like an executive summary style. Or a structure like 1) hereās an example of a misquote leading to a bad outcome 2) Miquoting in general poses problems 3) The EA forums needs to enfore rules against misquotes (and hereās how).
Wow, this means you could have an entire class of people, including ones who have trouble with maths (with like say complex equations), and you ād be able to teach them to do maths in ways they like ? That would be very impressive! Iād like to learn more, do you have sources on that ?
I have multiple types of writing (and videos) related to this:
educational and skill-building materials (e.g. grammar trees, text analysis or tutoring videos)
writing about how learning works (e.g. practice and mastery)
writing about epistemology ā key philosophical concepts behind the other stuff
writing about why some opposing views (like genetic IQ) are mistaken
Iāve been developing and debating these ideas for many years, and I donāt know of any refutations or counter-examples to my claims, but Iām not popular/āinfluential and have not gotten very many people to try my ideas much.
In terms of the subject matter itself, math is one of the better starting points. However, people often have some other stuff that gets in the way like issues with procrastination, motivation, project management, sleep schedule, ālazinessā, planning ahead, time preference, resource budgeting (including mental energy), self-awareness, emotions, drug use (including caffeine, alcohol or nicotine), or clashes between their conscious ideas and intuitions/āsubconscious ideas. These things can be disruptive to math learning, so they may need to be addressed first. In other words, if one is conflicted about learning math ā if part of them wants to and part doesnāt ā then they may need to deal with that before studying math. There are also a lot of people who are mentally tired most of the time and they need to improve that situation rather than undertake a new project involving lots of thinking.
Also most current educational materials for math, like most topics, are not very good. It takes significant skill or help to deal with that.
There is an issue where, basically, most people donāt believe me that I have important knowledge and wonāt listen. Initial skepticism is totally reasonable but I think what should happen next, from at least a few people, is a truth seeking process like a debate using rational methods instead of just ignoring something, on the assumption itās probably wrong, with no attempt to identify any error. That way people can find errors in my ideas, or not, and either way someone can learn something.
Sounds like quite the challenge to learn maths ! I can understand why āyou need to be really motivated and allocate a lot of time and resources and to avoid coffee and alcohol and cigarettes and to solve your problems of sleep and procrastination and emotions in order to learn mathsā leads to not many people really learning maths !
I wouldnāt count on many people learning these skills in such a context.
And I though the issue was only because the educational material was poor.
Ok, then Iām not sure learning maths is the most valuable use of my time right now. Especially since I mostly aggregate the work of other experts and I let them do the research and the maths in my stead.
(Although Iād still be interested by the links in case that proves necessary for my research at some point in the future. Maybe the āhow learning worksā material could be of interest too)
Each individual thing is a solvable problem. But, yes, I donāt expect many people to solve a long list of problems. But I still claim it is possible.
Hereās some of the info https://āācriticalfallibilism.com/āāpractice-and-mastery/āā
Thanks !