As far as I’m aware, the lives of invertebrates are considered likely to be net negative due to r-selection (most (all?) species reproduce by having a large amount of offspring, most of whom die at a very young age), and short lifespans in general, which tend to end in painful death by dehydration, being eaten alive etc (the extreme suffering involved in this type of death is thought to typically outweigh any positive aspects of the individual’s short life).
I don’t think its enough to say they’re net negative because of r-selection though. Insect larvae probably have like 2 orders of magnitude less neurons and they might not even be conscious in the first place. Also I saw those welfare reports but really didn’t like them because they left out the duration of suffering which is a huge factor in how bad something is. A broiler chicken experiencing a moderate amount of stress for it’s entire life could be much much worse than it being boiled alive for a few seconds.
This is my welfare spreadsheet but I didn’t intend to share it so if you want citations for the numbers I can try to link them.
This is very interesting to see/hear. I have a paper coming out that’s purely theoretical but that deals with this issue, and I’d be interested in talking more about this spreadsheet.
Thanks for sharing. Definitely more research like yours and WAI’s is needed regarding what species and stages of development within species are likely to experience suffering, and how we should view the importance of moderate/extreme suffering/pleasure.
As far as I’m aware, the lives of invertebrates are considered likely to be net negative due to r-selection (most (all?) species reproduce by having a large amount of offspring, most of whom die at a very young age), and short lifespans in general, which tend to end in painful death by dehydration, being eaten alive etc (the extreme suffering involved in this type of death is thought to typically outweigh any positive aspects of the individual’s short life).
I don’t know of any explicit calculations apart from Charity Entrepreneurship’s weighted animal welfare index (http://www.charityentrepreneurship.com/blog/is-it-better-to-be-a-wild-rat-or-a-factory-farmed-cow-a-systematic-method-for-comparing-animal-welfare) which includes an estimate for ‘wild bug’ (spoiler alert: it’s net negative). Are you able to share some of your calculations?
I don’t think its enough to say they’re net negative because of r-selection though. Insect larvae probably have like 2 orders of magnitude less neurons and they might not even be conscious in the first place. Also I saw those welfare reports but really didn’t like them because they left out the duration of suffering which is a huge factor in how bad something is. A broiler chicken experiencing a moderate amount of stress for it’s entire life could be much much worse than it being boiled alive for a few seconds.
This is my welfare spreadsheet but I didn’t intend to share it so if you want citations for the numbers I can try to link them.
This is very interesting to see/hear. I have a paper coming out that’s purely theoretical but that deals with this issue, and I’d be interested in talking more about this spreadsheet.
Sure I’d be happy to discuss it more
Thanks for sharing. Definitely more research like yours and WAI’s is needed regarding what species and stages of development within species are likely to experience suffering, and how we should view the importance of moderate/extreme suffering/pleasure.