in his Welfare Range Estimates, (Fischer, 2023) argues that all invertebrates probably have welfare ranges âwithin two orders of magnitude of the vertebrates nonhuman animals [presented in his report]â
Do you have any thoughts on this? I read the whole book about welfare comparisons across species from @Bob Fischer, and I really liked it. However, I think the above vastly underestimates uncertainty. Here are my estimates for sentience-adjusted welfare ranges proportional to âindividual number of neuronsâ^âexponentâ, and âexponentâ from 0 to 2, which covers the best guesses that I consider reasonable.
Here are a few other grantmakers that might be interested in funding such research or welfare interventions: Animal Charity Evaluators, Animal Welfare Fund from EA Funds, Animal Welfare Fund from Founders Pledge, and Farm Animal Welfare fund from Coefficient Giving. Also feel free to comment or tag other grantmakers or funds that would be interested in shrimp sentience research.
There is also the Strategic Animal Funding Circle (SAFC), and maybe Falcon Fund (âWe also expect to place some bets on non-AI opportunities that are unusually strongâ).
I havenât had the opportunity to read his book yet, but Iâd love to. I donât have strong opinions on this matter. Bob has studied this so much more than what Iâve been able to read so far. Same goes for your estimates. Here are some thoughts that you can take with a grain of salt:
Iâd endorse the fact that sentience (which is necessary for welfare) is an emerging phenomenon, so there is some sort of limit under which an animal is simply not sentient at all, and above which we can consider sentience is present (eventhough the welfare range could be way smaller); and we cannot consider a âneuronâ as a fixed parameter, especially for lower invertebrates (see for example this). I currently think that sentience is only possible in bilaterians (I thus exclude sponges and cnidarians, notably), though many are probably not. I think p(sentience) for soil animals is far from negligeable, but I have no idea how welfare compares, and I would not base my estimates on their number of neurons (although it might be a good enough proxy for larger animals).
At the end, the main idea that I wanted this report to portray is that research looking for welfare ranges will look almost exactly the same as research looking for sentience markers, as they are very closely linked (although sentience criteria are more pain-centric while welfare ranges might include more positively-valenced markers, as discussed in the report). So, whatever our current âplace-holderâ estimates are for sentience or welfare in shrimps, more research will most likely answer both :)
I would not base my estimates on their number of neurons (although it might be a good enough proxy for larger animals).
The graph below illustrates that âindividual number of neuronsâ^0.188 explains pretty well the estimates for the sentience-adjusted welfare ranges presented in Bobâs book. I also do not think the specific proxy matters that much. In allometry, âthe study of the relationship of body size to shape,[1]anatomy, physiology and behaviourâ, âThe relationship between the two measured quantities is often expressed as a power law equation (allometric equation)â. If the sentience-adjusted welfare range is proportional to âproxy 1â^âexponent 1â, and âproxy 1â is proportional to âproxy 2â^âexponent 2â, the sentience-adjusted welfare range is proportional to âproxy 1â^(âexponent 1â*âexponent 2â). So the results for âproxy 1â and exponent âexponent 1â*âexponent 2â are the same as those for âproxy 2â and âexponent 2âł.
whatever our current âplace-holderâ estimates are for sentience or welfare in shrimps, more research will most likely answer both
I very much agree. On the other hand, I think research on sentience criteria mostly decreases the uncertainty about anatomy and behaviour, and I believe there is way more uncertainty in how to go from those to quantitative comparisons of welfare across species.
Thanks for this great research, Guillaume.
Do you have any thoughts on this? I read the whole book about welfare comparisons across species from @Bob Fischer, and I really liked it. However, I think the above vastly underestimates uncertainty. Here are my estimates for sentience-adjusted welfare ranges proportional to âindividual number of neuronsâ^âexponentâ, and âexponentâ from 0 to 2, which covers the best guesses that I consider reasonable.
There is also the Strategic Animal Funding Circle (SAFC), and maybe Falcon Fund (âWe also expect to place some bets on non-AI opportunities that are unusually strongâ).
I havenât had the opportunity to read his book yet, but Iâd love to. I donât have strong opinions on this matter. Bob has studied this so much more than what Iâve been able to read so far. Same goes for your estimates. Here are some thoughts that you can take with a grain of salt:
Iâd endorse the fact that sentience (which is necessary for welfare) is an emerging phenomenon, so there is some sort of limit under which an animal is simply not sentient at all, and above which we can consider sentience is present (eventhough the welfare range could be way smaller); and we cannot consider a âneuronâ as a fixed parameter, especially for lower invertebrates (see for example this). I currently think that sentience is only possible in bilaterians (I thus exclude sponges and cnidarians, notably), though many are probably not. I think p(sentience) for soil animals is far from negligeable, but I have no idea how welfare compares, and I would not base my estimates on their number of neurons (although it might be a good enough proxy for larger animals).
At the end, the main idea that I wanted this report to portray is that research looking for welfare ranges will look almost exactly the same as research looking for sentience markers, as they are very closely linked (although sentience criteria are more pain-centric while welfare ranges might include more positively-valenced markers, as discussed in the report). So, whatever our current âplace-holderâ estimates are for sentience or welfare in shrimps, more research will most likely answer both :)
Thanks for suggesting other funds!
Thanks for the quick thoughts, Guillaume.
The graph below illustrates that âindividual number of neuronsâ^0.188 explains pretty well the estimates for the sentience-adjusted welfare ranges presented in Bobâs book. I also do not think the specific proxy matters that much. In allometry, âthe study of the relationship of body size to shape,[1] anatomy, physiology and behaviourâ, âThe relationship between the two measured quantities is often expressed as a power law equation (allometric equation)â. If the sentience-adjusted welfare range is proportional to âproxy 1â^âexponent 1â, and âproxy 1â is proportional to âproxy 2â^âexponent 2â, the sentience-adjusted welfare range is proportional to âproxy 1â^(âexponent 1â*âexponent 2â). So the results for âproxy 1â and exponent âexponent 1â*âexponent 2â are the same as those for âproxy 2â and âexponent 2âł.
I very much agree. On the other hand, I think research on sentience criteria mostly decreases the uncertainty about anatomy and behaviour, and I believe there is way more uncertainty in how to go from those to quantitative comparisons of welfare across species.