I actually find the argument that those arguing against prioritising climate change are aiding white supremacy[1] more alarming than the attack on Beckstead, even though the accusations there are more oblique.
While I think Beckstead’s argumentation here seems basically true, it is clearly somewhat incendiary in its implications and likely to make many people uncomfortable – it is a large bullet to bite, even if I think that calling it “overtly white-supremacist” is bad argumentation that risks substantially degrading the discourse[2].
Conversely, claiming that anyone who doesn’t explicitly prioritise a particular cause area is aiding white supremacy seems like extremely pernicious argumentation to me – an attempt to actively suppress critical prioritisation between cause areas and attack those trying to work out how to make difficult-but-necessary trade-offs. I think this style of argumentation makes good-faith disagreement over difficult prioritisation questions much harder, and contributes exceedingly little in return.
“Hence, dismissing climate change because it does not constitute an obstacle for creating Utopia reinforces unjust racial dynamics, and thus supports white supremacy.” (p. 27)
The document also claims (in footnote 13) that “the prevalence of such tendencies” (by which I assume is meant “overtly white-supremacist” tendencies, since the footnote is appended directly to that accusation) in EA longtermism “may be somewhat unsurprising” given EA’s racial make-up. I would find it quite surprising if many EAs were secretly harbouring white-supremacist leanings, and would require much stronger (or indeed any) evidence that this were the case before making such aspersions.
Yeah, agreed that using the white supremacist label needlessly poisons the discussion in both cases.
For whatever it’s worth, my own tentative guess would actually be that saving a life in the developing world contributes more to growth in the long run than saving a life in the developed world. Fertility in the former is much higher, and in the long run I expect growth and technological development to be increasing in global population size (at least over the ranges we can expect to see).
Maybe this is a bit off-topic, but I think it’s worth illustrating that there’s no sense in which the longtermist discussion about saving lives necessarily pushes in a so-called “white supremacist” direction.
For whatever it’s worth, my own tentative guess would actually be that saving a life in the developing world contributes more to growth in the long run than saving a life in the developed world. Fertility in the former is much higher, and in the long run I expect growth and technological development to be increasing in global population size (at least over the ranges we can expect to see).
Is this taking more immediate existential risks into account and to what degree and how people in the developing and developed worlds affect them?
Yeah, I agree the facile use of “white supremacy” here is bad, and I do want to keep ad hominems out of EA discourse. Thanks for explaining this.
I guess I still think it makes important enough arguments that I’d like to see engagement, though I agree it would be better said in a more cautious and less accusatory way.
Thanks, I agree with this clarification.
I actually find the argument that those arguing against prioritising climate change are aiding white supremacy[1] more alarming than the attack on Beckstead, even though the accusations there are more oblique.
While I think Beckstead’s argumentation here seems basically true, it is clearly somewhat incendiary in its implications and likely to make many people uncomfortable – it is a large bullet to bite, even if I think that calling it “overtly white-supremacist” is bad argumentation that risks substantially degrading the discourse[2].
Conversely, claiming that anyone who doesn’t explicitly prioritise a particular cause area is aiding white supremacy seems like extremely pernicious argumentation to me – an attempt to actively suppress critical prioritisation between cause areas and attack those trying to work out how to make difficult-but-necessary trade-offs. I think this style of argumentation makes good-faith disagreement over difficult prioritisation questions much harder, and contributes exceedingly little in return.
“Hence, dismissing climate change because it does not constitute an obstacle for creating Utopia reinforces unjust racial dynamics, and thus supports white supremacy.” (p. 27)
The document also claims (in footnote 13) that “the prevalence of such tendencies” (by which I assume is meant “overtly white-supremacist” tendencies, since the footnote is appended directly to that accusation) in EA longtermism “may be somewhat unsurprising” given EA’s racial make-up. I would find it quite surprising if many EAs were secretly harbouring white-supremacist leanings, and would require much stronger (or indeed any) evidence that this were the case before making such aspersions.
Yeah, agreed that using the white supremacist label needlessly poisons the discussion in both cases.
For whatever it’s worth, my own tentative guess would actually be that saving a life in the developing world contributes more to growth in the long run than saving a life in the developed world. Fertility in the former is much higher, and in the long run I expect growth and technological development to be increasing in global population size (at least over the ranges we can expect to see).
Maybe this is a bit off-topic, but I think it’s worth illustrating that there’s no sense in which the longtermist discussion about saving lives necessarily pushes in a so-called “white supremacist” direction.
Is this taking more immediate existential risks into account and to what degree and how people in the developing and developed worlds affect them?
No.
Yeah, I agree the facile use of “white supremacy” here is bad, and I do want to keep ad hominems out of EA discourse. Thanks for explaining this.
I guess I still think it makes important enough arguments that I’d like to see engagement, though I agree it would be better said in a more cautious and less accusatory way.