I really like the specific numbers people are posting. Iāll add my own (rough estimates) from the ~5 months I spent applying to roles in 2018.
Context: In spring 2018, I attended an event CEA ran for people with an interest in operations, because Open Phil referred me to them; this is how I wound up deciding to apply to most of the roles below. Before attending the operations event, Iād started two EA groups, one of which still existed, and spent ~1 year working 5-10 hours/āweek as a private consultant for a small family foundation, doing a combination of research and operations work. All of the below experiences were specific to me; others may have gone through different processes based on timing, available positions, prior experience with organizations, etc.
CEA (applied to many positions, interviewed for all of them at once, didnāt spend much additional time vs. what Iād have done if I just applied to one)
~4 hours of interview time before the work trial, including several semi-casual conversations with CEA staff at different events about roles they had open.
~2-hour work trial task, not very intense compared to Open Philās tasks
1.5-week work trial at CEA; there were approximately as many open positions as there were work trial candidates, and Iām not sure anyone went through a trial of this length and wasnāt hired (though this might have happened). I was paid at a standard hourly rate for this, so it came out to ~$1500.
Open Phil (research)
They reused my conversation notes and charity evaluation test from a previous GiveWell application (those took me ~8 hours total, so perhaps I should count it as ~4 hours per application)
The first interview took ~30 minutes (and was more of a Q&A for my benefit, not something that required too much preparation).
The next work trial was ~12 hours (I worked until almost the maximum time permitted; we were instructed not to spend more than this, and to submit an incomplete application if we ran out of time).
The second interview was ~75 minutes, and pretty intense, but not something I was asked to study for in a particular way.
When you include the resume + initial submission, this adds up to 18-22 hours (depending on how you count the reused conversation notes), for which I was paid $1100 ($300 for notes, $800 for work test). That was better than my freelance writing rate at the time, so while it was time-consuming, it wasnāt totally unsustainable.
These hours were spread out over months of waiting time, which wasnāt ideal, but given the many hundreds of people who applied, Iām not surprised the process took a while (Iād guess that staff spent something like 500 hours grading research tests and conducting follow-up interviews with the last round of candidates, which is a full month of work for three people).
Open Phil (operations)
Started with a ~45-minute informational interview (mostly for me to ask questions, didnāt require much prep)
Work test in the 2-8-hour recommended range, paid at $24/āhour for up to 8 hours (which read to me as a strong signal of ādonāt spend more time than thisā, though I understand the pressure to keep going). It took me 2.5 hours for the four-page assignment; it was an email rather than a research report, so a bit less stressful to finish.
I joined that hiring process fairly late, and someone else was hired before I got any further. When a new position opened a few months later, Open Phil asked me to come in for a one-day visit, and they were flexible enough that I was able to combine this with another trip to the Bay for interviews (the price of flexibility, of course, is that everything takes longer for each applicantāitās a tough tradeoff).
The visit was a full day, but didnāt involve much āworkā, per se; there were ~3 hours of interviews, with the rest of the time spent on between-interview breaks, casual lunch with other operations staff (no interviews), and a visit to the daily morning meeting for ops staff.
Total: Counting travel as āhalf timeā, 10-12 hours.
MIRI (operations)
One-hour interview to learn more about the position; I was also asked some questions, but this was more of a screening for ādo you understand what MIRI does, and whyā.
Initial one-hour test as part of their standard recruiting process for all staff (30 minutes of quantitative reasoning, 30 minutes of logic puzzles). I donāt think this was a stage in and of itself, but I could be wrong (I think I was always going to do the work test).
~4 hours of work tests in the MIRI office, plus a ~one-hour interview with a MIRI staffer Iād likely have worked with as part of the role (very casual, mostly me asking questions).
Total: 8 hours with travel as āhalf timeā (this was done as part of a trip I made to the Bay to work through several interviews). I was paid $120 for my time on the work tests.
Ought (COO role)
Three interviews of ~4 hours total, which were fairly āwork-likeā (I was answering more questions than I asked, or discussing trial tasks)
~3 hours spent on two trial tasks; no time recommendations were given, but the work was light (āthink about this brief technical article and be ready to explain itā, āthink about whether we should hire someone with this resumeāāI wasnāt submitting any writing, just discussing the assignments in my interviews)
I didnāt get to the āwork trialā stage for this position (though I donāt know whether there was oneāthey may have just trialed their one favorite candidate).
Total: ~7 hours of work, all remote, and I was paid $250. Ought gets bonus points for giving me very good feedback on the ways in which my last trial task wasnāt up to par.
Vox (journalist and engagement manager positions, Future Perfect)
~7 hours on an initial work assignment, plus a 30-minute phone screening for me to ask questions. The journalist assignment took roughly the same amount of time as the engagement manager assignment.
I didnāt move beyond that in the process. Amusingly, the only non-EA organization I applied to led to my doing the greatest amount of unpaid work.
AI Impacts (operations/āresearch role, itās a tiny organization and Iād have been a jack-of-all-trades)
~2 hours of initial interviews before being offered a work trial
Because the role was nebulous, I wound up planning my own work trial together with AI Impacts staff. I estimated that the work would take ~20 hours total (paid at $30/āhour), but wound up accepting a CEA position before starting in on the tasks.
CHAI (communications/āexecutive assistant role)
Two interviews of ~2.5 hours total (of this, 1.5 hours was talking to Stuart Russell, which was much more exciting for me than for him).
...and thatās it. I received an offer (I think they had very few candidates) without a further work trial.
BERI (project manager)
Two interviews of ~1.5 hours total, nothing beyond that (no offer)
I also had some exploratory conversations with people at a couple of other organizations, but accepted the CEA position before getting to a formal interview.
All told, if I throw in ~5 hours for updating my resume and writing a few brief ācover letterā notes (huge props to the orgs I applied to for not requiring formal cover letters), I spent ~70 hours interviewing (with travel at half time) and was paid $1530 (outside the CEA work trial, which was another 60 hours and $1500). Iām not sure how to think about time costs from travel, but I got to meet a lot of interesting people and eat some free meals along the way.
I didnāt find any process especially aggravating, though there were small adjustments Iād suggest for some organizations (mostly the small ones that hadnāt done much interviewing). I think I was compensated fairly, and most of my interviews were genuinely useful to me, both for learning about the particular organization and for getting a better sense of my own strengths, weaknesses, and goals.
I agree with some of the criticism on this page, but I also want to point out some really good things EA orgs do with hiring:
Cross-referencing!
Open Phil passed me along to CEA as a possible operations candidate when they hired someone before I finished making it through their pipeline, and I wouldnāt have applied for most of these positions if they hadnāt done so.
Open Phil also reused my GiveWell tests so I didnāt have to write new conversation notes.
CHAI passed notes from one of my interviews to BERI when I was still applying for the latter role.
After I volunteered at a CEA event after the operations retreat, they passed my name to MIRI, who hired me to work on operations for some of their retreats, which helped me learn about their open position. These organizations talk to each other, and in my experience, thatās been a good thing.
No cover letters! (I said this once before, but itās worth saying again.)
Compensation for time spent on work trials! Itās possible that orgs should also compensate for interviews, but the work-trial payments put EA leagues ahead of some other industries. I certainly never got paid for any of the cover letters I wrote in college, or the hours of math tests and debate prep I had to do while applying for jobs at investment firms.
Not having everything be interview-based! I donāt interview well, and spent a lot of time in college wondering whether Iād just screwed something up in an interview without noticing. My work trials, on the other hand, are concrete and visible, and if I donāt get accepted to a position, thereās at least a chance that I can learn something by reviewing my work.
For the cross-referencing, did they ask your permission first? Hopefully so. Otherwise, there can be the awkward situation where one does not actually want to work at the organization to which one has been referred.
I really like the specific numbers people are posting. Iāll add my own (rough estimates) from the ~5 months I spent applying to roles in 2018.
Context: In spring 2018, I attended an event CEA ran for people with an interest in operations, because Open Phil referred me to them; this is how I wound up deciding to apply to most of the roles below. Before attending the operations event, Iād started two EA groups, one of which still existed, and spent ~1 year working 5-10 hours/āweek as a private consultant for a small family foundation, doing a combination of research and operations work. All of the below experiences were specific to me; others may have gone through different processes based on timing, available positions, prior experience with organizations, etc.
CEA (applied to many positions, interviewed for all of them at once, didnāt spend much additional time vs. what Iād have done if I just applied to one)
~4 hours of interview time before the work trial, including several semi-casual conversations with CEA staff at different events about roles they had open.
~2-hour work trial task, not very intense compared to Open Philās tasks
1.5-week work trial at CEA; there were approximately as many open positions as there were work trial candidates, and Iām not sure anyone went through a trial of this length and wasnāt hired (though this might have happened). I was paid at a standard hourly rate for this, so it came out to ~$1500.
Open Phil (research)
They reused my conversation notes and charity evaluation test from a previous GiveWell application (those took me ~8 hours total, so perhaps I should count it as ~4 hours per application)
The first interview took ~30 minutes (and was more of a Q&A for my benefit, not something that required too much preparation).
The next work trial was ~12 hours (I worked until almost the maximum time permitted; we were instructed not to spend more than this, and to submit an incomplete application if we ran out of time).
The second interview was ~75 minutes, and pretty intense, but not something I was asked to study for in a particular way.
When you include the resume + initial submission, this adds up to 18-22 hours (depending on how you count the reused conversation notes), for which I was paid $1100 ($300 for notes, $800 for work test). That was better than my freelance writing rate at the time, so while it was time-consuming, it wasnāt totally unsustainable.
These hours were spread out over months of waiting time, which wasnāt ideal, but given the many hundreds of people who applied, Iām not surprised the process took a while (Iād guess that staff spent something like 500 hours grading research tests and conducting follow-up interviews with the last round of candidates, which is a full month of work for three people).
Open Phil (operations)
Started with a ~45-minute informational interview (mostly for me to ask questions, didnāt require much prep)
Work test in the 2-8-hour recommended range, paid at $24/āhour for up to 8 hours (which read to me as a strong signal of ādonāt spend more time than thisā, though I understand the pressure to keep going). It took me 2.5 hours for the four-page assignment; it was an email rather than a research report, so a bit less stressful to finish.
I joined that hiring process fairly late, and someone else was hired before I got any further. When a new position opened a few months later, Open Phil asked me to come in for a one-day visit, and they were flexible enough that I was able to combine this with another trip to the Bay for interviews (the price of flexibility, of course, is that everything takes longer for each applicantāitās a tough tradeoff).
The visit was a full day, but didnāt involve much āworkā, per se; there were ~3 hours of interviews, with the rest of the time spent on between-interview breaks, casual lunch with other operations staff (no interviews), and a visit to the daily morning meeting for ops staff.
Total: Counting travel as āhalf timeā, 10-12 hours.
MIRI (operations)
One-hour interview to learn more about the position; I was also asked some questions, but this was more of a screening for ādo you understand what MIRI does, and whyā.
Initial one-hour test as part of their standard recruiting process for all staff (30 minutes of quantitative reasoning, 30 minutes of logic puzzles). I donāt think this was a stage in and of itself, but I could be wrong (I think I was always going to do the work test).
~4 hours of work tests in the MIRI office, plus a ~one-hour interview with a MIRI staffer Iād likely have worked with as part of the role (very casual, mostly me asking questions).
Total: 8 hours with travel as āhalf timeā (this was done as part of a trip I made to the Bay to work through several interviews). I was paid $120 for my time on the work tests.
Ought (COO role)
Three interviews of ~4 hours total, which were fairly āwork-likeā (I was answering more questions than I asked, or discussing trial tasks)
~3 hours spent on two trial tasks; no time recommendations were given, but the work was light (āthink about this brief technical article and be ready to explain itā, āthink about whether we should hire someone with this resumeāāI wasnāt submitting any writing, just discussing the assignments in my interviews)
I didnāt get to the āwork trialā stage for this position (though I donāt know whether there was oneāthey may have just trialed their one favorite candidate).
Total: ~7 hours of work, all remote, and I was paid $250. Ought gets bonus points for giving me very good feedback on the ways in which my last trial task wasnāt up to par.
Vox (journalist and engagement manager positions, Future Perfect)
~7 hours on an initial work assignment, plus a 30-minute phone screening for me to ask questions. The journalist assignment took roughly the same amount of time as the engagement manager assignment.
I didnāt move beyond that in the process. Amusingly, the only non-EA organization I applied to led to my doing the greatest amount of unpaid work.
AI Impacts (operations/āresearch role, itās a tiny organization and Iād have been a jack-of-all-trades)
~2 hours of initial interviews before being offered a work trial
Because the role was nebulous, I wound up planning my own work trial together with AI Impacts staff. I estimated that the work would take ~20 hours total (paid at $30/āhour), but wound up accepting a CEA position before starting in on the tasks.
CHAI (communications/āexecutive assistant role)
Two interviews of ~2.5 hours total (of this, 1.5 hours was talking to Stuart Russell, which was much more exciting for me than for him).
...and thatās it. I received an offer (I think they had very few candidates) without a further work trial.
BERI (project manager)
Two interviews of ~1.5 hours total, nothing beyond that (no offer)
I also had some exploratory conversations with people at a couple of other organizations, but accepted the CEA position before getting to a formal interview.
All told, if I throw in ~5 hours for updating my resume and writing a few brief ācover letterā notes (huge props to the orgs I applied to for not requiring formal cover letters), I spent ~70 hours interviewing (with travel at half time) and was paid $1530 (outside the CEA work trial, which was another 60 hours and $1500). Iām not sure how to think about time costs from travel, but I got to meet a lot of interesting people and eat some free meals along the way.
I didnāt find any process especially aggravating, though there were small adjustments Iād suggest for some organizations (mostly the small ones that hadnāt done much interviewing). I think I was compensated fairly, and most of my interviews were genuinely useful to me, both for learning about the particular organization and for getting a better sense of my own strengths, weaknesses, and goals.
I agree with some of the criticism on this page, but I also want to point out some really good things EA orgs do with hiring:
Cross-referencing!
Open Phil passed me along to CEA as a possible operations candidate when they hired someone before I finished making it through their pipeline, and I wouldnāt have applied for most of these positions if they hadnāt done so.
Open Phil also reused my GiveWell tests so I didnāt have to write new conversation notes.
CHAI passed notes from one of my interviews to BERI when I was still applying for the latter role.
After I volunteered at a CEA event after the operations retreat, they passed my name to MIRI, who hired me to work on operations for some of their retreats, which helped me learn about their open position. These organizations talk to each other, and in my experience, thatās been a good thing.
No cover letters! (I said this once before, but itās worth saying again.)
Compensation for time spent on work trials! Itās possible that orgs should also compensate for interviews, but the work-trial payments put EA leagues ahead of some other industries. I certainly never got paid for any of the cover letters I wrote in college, or the hours of math tests and debate prep I had to do while applying for jobs at investment firms.
Not having everything be interview-based! I donāt interview well, and spent a lot of time in college wondering whether Iād just screwed something up in an interview without noticing. My work trials, on the other hand, are concrete and visible, and if I donāt get accepted to a position, thereās at least a chance that I can learn something by reviewing my work.
For the cross-referencing, did they ask your permission first? Hopefully so. Otherwise, there can be the awkward situation where one does not actually want to work at the organization to which one has been referred.
Yes, they asked my permission first.
I strongly prefer cover letters because they give me the opportunity to frame myself in the way that I think I should be seen.