For what it’s worth, I am autistic-and a white man as it happens-and I do not find free, uncensored discussion of race/IQ stuff specifically makes me feel more welcome and comfortable. Rather, it makes me feel sick, and anxious and worried that I am associating with bad people if I participate in the discussion. (I actually agree with Geoffrey Miller that there is probably some connection between autism and what he’s calling “decoupling” though. And that this probably makes EA more welcoming for autistics. But ultimately, the point of EA is meant to be to do good, not to be a social club for autistic people.)
EDIT: I also strongly second AnonymousQualy’s point that Bostrom knew he was saying taboo stuff and so it cannot be dismissed as ‘autistic people don’t know when they are offending others’.
I think censorship would be a bad choice here, because the EA forum hasn’t discussed these concepts previously (in any routine way, I’m sure there is a screed or two that could be dug up from a mound of downvotes) and is unlikely to in the future.
I would agree that race/IQ debates on the EA forum are unlikely to produce anything of value. But it’s my experience that if you have free discussion rights and one banned topic, that causes more issues than just letting people say their piece and move on.
I’d also agree that EA isn’t meant to be a social club for autists—but from a cynical perspective, the blithely curious and alien-brained are also a strategic resource and snubbing them should be avoided when possible.
If people are still sharing takes on race/IQ two weeks from now, I think that would be a measurable enough detraction from the goal of the forum to support the admins telling them to take it elsewhere. But I would be surprised if it were an issue.
Uncontroversial take: EA wouldn’t exist without the blithely curious and alien-brained.
More controversially: I’ve been increasingly feeling like I’m on a forum where people think the autistic/decoupler/rationalist cluster did their part and now should just… go away. Like, ‘thanks for pointing us at the moral horrors and the world-ending catastrophe, I’ll bear them in mind, now please stop annoying me.’
But it is not obvious to me that the alien-brained have noticed everything useful that they are going to notice, and done all the work that they will do, such that it is safe to discard them.
Let me say this: autism runs in my family, including two of my first cousins. I think that neurodivergence is not only nothing to be ashamed of, and not an “illness” to be “cured”, but in fact a profound gift, and one which allows neurodivergent individuals to see what many of us do not. (Another example: Listen to Vikingur Olafsson play the piano! Nobody else hears Mozart like that.).
Neurodivergent individuals and high decouplers should not be chased out of effective altruism or any other movement. Doing this would not only be intrinsically wrong, but would also deprive the movement of profoundly important insights, and would deprive the neurodivergent of one of the few places where they can genuinely belong.
It is very important to recognize that neurodivergent individuals, among others, sometimes have a harder time recognizing violations of social norms, and to exercise some degree of patience and compassion in responding to norm violations.
It is also important for everyone, no matter their tendency towards decoupling, their neurodiversity, or their background, to understand that words can harm, and to be sensitive to the need to stop and reverse course when presented with credible evidence that words have harmed.
Everyone reading this message, and I mean everyone, is capable of hearing “no, stop. That is wrong” or “racist science has no place in this discussion” and stopping. It is time for the racism to stop, and the healing to begin.
The discussion that needs to be had right now is about healing, growth and change. The time for defense is over. The time for debate is over. It is time to learn to do better. I hope that the coming weeks can be used for growth and change.
For what it’s worth, I am autistic-and a white man as it happens-and I do not find free, uncensored discussion of race/IQ stuff specifically makes me feel more welcome and comfortable. Rather, it makes me feel sick, and anxious and worried that I am associating with bad people if I participate in the discussion. (I actually agree with Geoffrey Miller that there is probably some connection between autism and what he’s calling “decoupling” though. And that this probably makes EA more welcoming for autistics. But ultimately, the point of EA is meant to be to do good, not to be a social club for autistic people.)
EDIT: I also strongly second AnonymousQualy’s point that Bostrom knew he was saying taboo stuff and so it cannot be dismissed as ‘autistic people don’t know when they are offending others’.
I think censorship would be a bad choice here, because the EA forum hasn’t discussed these concepts previously (in any routine way, I’m sure there is a screed or two that could be dug up from a mound of downvotes) and is unlikely to in the future.
I would agree that race/IQ debates on the EA forum are unlikely to produce anything of value. But it’s my experience that if you have free discussion rights and one banned topic, that causes more issues than just letting people say their piece and move on.
I’d also agree that EA isn’t meant to be a social club for autists—but from a cynical perspective, the blithely curious and alien-brained are also a strategic resource and snubbing them should be avoided when possible.
If people are still sharing takes on race/IQ two weeks from now, I think that would be a measurable enough detraction from the goal of the forum to support the admins telling them to take it elsewhere. But I would be surprised if it were an issue.
Uncontroversial take: EA wouldn’t exist without the blithely curious and alien-brained.
More controversially: I’ve been increasingly feeling like I’m on a forum where people think the autistic/decoupler/rationalist cluster did their part and now should just… go away. Like, ‘thanks for pointing us at the moral horrors and the world-ending catastrophe, I’ll bear them in mind, now please stop annoying me.’
But it is not obvious to me that the alien-brained have noticed everything useful that they are going to notice, and done all the work that they will do, such that it is safe to discard them.
Let me say this: autism runs in my family, including two of my first cousins. I think that neurodivergence is not only nothing to be ashamed of, and not an “illness” to be “cured”, but in fact a profound gift, and one which allows neurodivergent individuals to see what many of us do not. (Another example: Listen to Vikingur Olafsson play the piano! Nobody else hears Mozart like that.).
Neurodivergent individuals and high decouplers should not be chased out of effective altruism or any other movement. Doing this would not only be intrinsically wrong, but would also deprive the movement of profoundly important insights, and would deprive the neurodivergent of one of the few places where they can genuinely belong.
It is very important to recognize that neurodivergent individuals, among others, sometimes have a harder time recognizing violations of social norms, and to exercise some degree of patience and compassion in responding to norm violations.
It is also important for everyone, no matter their tendency towards decoupling, their neurodiversity, or their background, to understand that words can harm, and to be sensitive to the need to stop and reverse course when presented with credible evidence that words have harmed.
Everyone reading this message, and I mean everyone, is capable of hearing “no, stop. That is wrong” or “racist science has no place in this discussion” and stopping. It is time for the racism to stop, and the healing to begin.
The discussion that needs to be had right now is about healing, growth and change. The time for defense is over. The time for debate is over. It is time to learn to do better. I hope that the coming weeks can be used for growth and change.