Also can you estimate how many of the women would have used that term”rape” in reference to their own case? Maybe if not, you can sum up what traumas, misconduct, or injustices they actually suffered?
I ask these because I’ve been reflecting on this piece this whole weekend, and it seems very unusual that in the Time piece there is nothing one could call “rape” that I remember *, but now here we see claims of 30 actual rapes. I have looked up California law and “rape” is defined how I’d expect (eg, CA does not seem to call all sexual assault or misconduct “rape”. Rape is indeed specifically defined as sexual penetration without consent). So I’m not sure what’s happening here that 30 so-called rapes are just coming out now.
I admit I do find this number implausible unless you are using a definition of coercion that is so liberal that it automatically means defining any relationship within a workplace or with professional gap as coercion, which I believe most participating women would themselves view as consensual or at least not call “rape” even if they found it disturbing in retrospect.
Additionally, why would you only name rapes and not other SAs? Those would matter too.. It is very improbable (damn near impossible) that a culture with rape does not have an even worse culture of SA. So if there are 30 rapes why am I not actually reading a claim that looks more like “I know of 30 rapes and also 30+X sexual assaults by definitely EA-related people”? That’s the sort of claim that, if you could make it, would make sense to make if you are trying to build a case for how terrible EA is for women and how much harm has been neglected. So what is happening here? Is every SA and concerning instance being labelled rape or are the non-rapes being left out? Neither is okay tbh.
It should raise validity concerns for any reader that the Times journalist didn’t uncover anything implying that 30 rapes had been committed, even though I think we can all agree that it would have done their central claim a great service and agree that the journalist took great effort to find supporting stories from various places. We’d have expected the journalist to hear about this.
TBH I was hoping someone else would ask for clarity on (1) how you are using the term “rape” and (2) how the women you have spoken to would use the term, because I don’t want to be seen as doubting victim claims. I really, strongly prefer that claims are taken seriously. But this is… Just too surprising and demands clarity one way or the other.
I feel the discussion on this post has gotten bogged down in talk of CEA, professionalism, etc. Yes that may be how OP actually wants the discussion to go, but the more important thing for us EAs to focus on is victim experiences. How would the victims describe their experiences? I want to know that.
*(I think you could call one story in the Time piece “attempted rape” although it sounded to be in a non-EA space by an anti-EA man.. a man who has been long banned from EA spaces)
Two questions:
Can you define rape as you use it here?
Also can you estimate how many of the women would have used that term”rape” in reference to their own case? Maybe if not, you can sum up what traumas, misconduct, or injustices they actually suffered?
I ask these because I’ve been reflecting on this piece this whole weekend, and it seems very unusual that in the Time piece there is nothing one could call “rape” that I remember *, but now here we see claims of 30 actual rapes. I have looked up California law and “rape” is defined how I’d expect (eg, CA does not seem to call all sexual assault or misconduct “rape”. Rape is indeed specifically defined as sexual penetration without consent). So I’m not sure what’s happening here that 30 so-called rapes are just coming out now.
I admit I do find this number implausible unless you are using a definition of coercion that is so liberal that it automatically means defining any relationship within a workplace or with professional gap as coercion, which I believe most participating women would themselves view as consensual or at least not call “rape” even if they found it disturbing in retrospect.
Additionally, why would you only name rapes and not other SAs? Those would matter too.. It is very improbable (damn near impossible) that a culture with rape does not have an even worse culture of SA. So if there are 30 rapes why am I not actually reading a claim that looks more like “I know of 30 rapes and also 30+X sexual assaults by definitely EA-related people”? That’s the sort of claim that, if you could make it, would make sense to make if you are trying to build a case for how terrible EA is for women and how much harm has been neglected. So what is happening here? Is every SA and concerning instance being labelled rape or are the non-rapes being left out? Neither is okay tbh.
It should raise validity concerns for any reader that the Times journalist didn’t uncover anything implying that 30 rapes had been committed, even though I think we can all agree that it would have done their central claim a great service and agree that the journalist took great effort to find supporting stories from various places. We’d have expected the journalist to hear about this.
TBH I was hoping someone else would ask for clarity on (1) how you are using the term “rape” and (2) how the women you have spoken to would use the term, because I don’t want to be seen as doubting victim claims. I really, strongly prefer that claims are taken seriously. But this is… Just too surprising and demands clarity one way or the other.
I feel the discussion on this post has gotten bogged down in talk of CEA, professionalism, etc. Yes that may be how OP actually wants the discussion to go, but the more important thing for us EAs to focus on is victim experiences. How would the victims describe their experiences? I want to know that.
*(I think you could call one story in the Time piece “attempted rape” although it sounded to be in a non-EA space by an anti-EA man.. a man who has been long banned from EA spaces)