I almost never engage in karma voting because I don’t really have a consistent strategy for it I’m comfortable with, but I just voted on this one. Karma voting in general has recently been kind of confusing to me, but I feel like I have noticed a significant amount of wagon circling recently, how critical a post was of EA didn’t used to be very predictive of its karma, but I’ve noticed that recently, since around the Bostrom email, it has become much more predictive. Write something defensive of EA, get mostly upvotes, potentially to the triple digits. Write something negative, very mixed to net negative voting, and if it reaches high enough karma, possibly even more comments. Hanania’s post on how EA should be anti-woke just got downvoted into the ground twice in a row, so I don’t think the voting reflects much ideological change by comparison (being very famous in EA is also moderately predictive, which is probably some part of the Aella post’s karma at least, and is a more mundane sort of bad I guess).
I’m still hopeful this will bounce back in a few hours, as I often see happen, but I still suspect the overall voting pattern will be a karmic tug of war at best. I’m not sure what to make of this, is it evaporative cooling? Are the same people just exhausted and taking it out on the bad news? Is it that the same people who were upvoting criticism before are exhausted and just not voting much at all, leaving the karma to the nay sayers (I doubt this one because of the voting patterns on moderately high karma posts of the tug of war variety, but it’s the sort of thing that makes me worry about my own voting, how I don’t even need to vote wrong to vote in a way that creates unreasonable disparities based on what I’m motivated to vote on at all, and just voting on everything is obviously infeasible). Regardless, I find it very disturbing, I’m used to EA being better than this.
Personally I downvoted this post for a few reasons:
insufficient details to evaluate the claims
claims are not stated clearly
I found it hard to follow because it contained various abbreviations with no explanation of them
assumes reader has context that is not presented in the post
To me this reads more like publicly posting content that was written only with an audience of folks working at CEA or similar orgs in mind. So I downvoted because it doesn’t seem worth a lot of people reading it since it’s unclear what value there is there for them. This isn’t to say the intended message isn’t worthwhile, only that the presentation in this particular post is insufficient.
I’d very much like to read a post providing evidence that there were many instances of sexual assault within the community if that’s the case, especially if it’s above the baseline of the surrounding context (whether that be people of similar backgrounds, living in similar places, etc.). And if CEA has engaged in misconduct I’d like to know about that, too. But I can’t make any updates based on this post because it doesn’t provide enough evidence to do so.
I wouldn’t put myself at risk of defamation by writing a post detailing SA in EA, nor do I want to speak for CH’s take on this, which is why the evidence feels so scant. With SA, it’ll always be hard to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt, so even if I gave you some evidence, you could refute it.
Also, this probably the post speaks more strongly to people who were following the post on the Time article (esp my posts) but doesn’t make a lot of sense if you just dropped in now.
I too have noticed thatseveral critical posts have recently gotten net negative karma early on. I don’t think people should do that unless the post is just awful, quite half-baked, in bad faith, or rule-breaking. (This is intended to be somewhat higher than my standard for when pushing a post into negative karma more generally is appropriate.)
The mods redesigned the frontpage to de-emphasize community posts because there was a general consensus that they were starting to crowd out object-level discussions. I think that was the right call, but it makes it easier to bury community posts early (in light of the new + upvoted sort criteria). The people who are voting early do not seem fully representative of the community as a whole, and having posts buried due to unrepresentative votes is undesirable.
I almost never engage in karma voting because I don’t really have a consistent strategy for it I’m comfortable with, but I just voted on this one. Karma voting in general has recently been kind of confusing to me, but I feel like I have noticed a significant amount of wagon circling recently, how critical a post was of EA didn’t used to be very predictive of its karma, but I’ve noticed that recently, since around the Bostrom email, it has become much more predictive. Write something defensive of EA, get mostly upvotes, potentially to the triple digits. Write something negative, very mixed to net negative voting, and if it reaches high enough karma, possibly even more comments. Hanania’s post on how EA should be anti-woke just got downvoted into the ground twice in a row, so I don’t think the voting reflects much ideological change by comparison (being very famous in EA is also moderately predictive, which is probably some part of the Aella post’s karma at least, and is a more mundane sort of bad I guess).
I’m still hopeful this will bounce back in a few hours, as I often see happen, but I still suspect the overall voting pattern will be a karmic tug of war at best. I’m not sure what to make of this, is it evaporative cooling? Are the same people just exhausted and taking it out on the bad news? Is it that the same people who were upvoting criticism before are exhausted and just not voting much at all, leaving the karma to the nay sayers (I doubt this one because of the voting patterns on moderately high karma posts of the tug of war variety, but it’s the sort of thing that makes me worry about my own voting, how I don’t even need to vote wrong to vote in a way that creates unreasonable disparities based on what I’m motivated to vote on at all, and just voting on everything is obviously infeasible). Regardless, I find it very disturbing, I’m used to EA being better than this.
Personally I downvoted this post for a few reasons:
insufficient details to evaluate the claims
claims are not stated clearly
I found it hard to follow because it contained various abbreviations with no explanation of them
assumes reader has context that is not presented in the post
To me this reads more like publicly posting content that was written only with an audience of folks working at CEA or similar orgs in mind. So I downvoted because it doesn’t seem worth a lot of people reading it since it’s unclear what value there is there for them. This isn’t to say the intended message isn’t worthwhile, only that the presentation in this particular post is insufficient.
I’d very much like to read a post providing evidence that there were many instances of sexual assault within the community if that’s the case, especially if it’s above the baseline of the surrounding context (whether that be people of similar backgrounds, living in similar places, etc.). And if CEA has engaged in misconduct I’d like to know about that, too. But I can’t make any updates based on this post because it doesn’t provide enough evidence to do so.
I wouldn’t put myself at risk of defamation by writing a post detailing SA in EA, nor do I want to speak for CH’s take on this, which is why the evidence feels so scant. With SA, it’ll always be hard to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt, so even if I gave you some evidence, you could refute it.
Also, this probably the post speaks more strongly to people who were following the post on the Time article (esp my posts) but doesn’t make a lot of sense if you just dropped in now.
I too have noticed thatseveral critical posts have recently gotten net negative karma early on. I don’t think people should do that unless the post is just awful, quite half-baked, in bad faith, or rule-breaking. (This is intended to be somewhat higher than my standard for when pushing a post into negative karma more generally is appropriate.)
The mods redesigned the frontpage to de-emphasize community posts because there was a general consensus that they were starting to crowd out object-level discussions. I think that was the right call, but it makes it easier to bury community posts early (in light of the new + upvoted sort criteria). The people who are voting early do not seem fully representative of the community as a whole, and having posts buried due to unrepresentative votes is undesirable.