Thanks for your comment and the link to your own post, which I’d not read. I’m glad to see discussion of these indirect effects, and I think it’s an area that needs more work for a deeper understanding.
I’m a bit confused by your hostility, as it seems that we are largely in agreement about the central point, which is that the route to long-term benefits flows in large part through short-term effects on humans (whether those are welfare improvements, value shifts, or some other category). I’m aware that this is not a novel claim, but it’s also one that is not universally known.
I’m particularly confused by your opening sentence. Could you explain how this is harmful or dangerous?
A couple of replies to specific points follow, so that we can thread the conversation properly if need be.
I appreciate that you’re thinking about flow-through/long-term effects and definitely agree we need more discussion and understanding in the area.
My “hostility” (although it isn’t that extreme =] really) is primarily due to the propagation of the assumption that “human-focused causes have positive significant flow-through effects while non-human animal-focused causes do not.” We have a lot more research to do into questions like this before we have that sort of confidence.
So the danger here is that impact-focused people might read the post and say “Wow, I should stop trying to support non-human animal-welfare since it doesn’t matter in the long-run!” I realize that your personal view is more nuanced, and I wish that came across more in your post. The possible flow-through effects: (i) promoting antispeciesism, (ii) scope sensitivity, (iii) reducing cognitive dissonance, and many more seem perfectly viable.
Sure, that makes sense. I think that the post would only be likely to elicit that immediate response in someone whose major reason for supporting animal welfare was the large amount of short-term suffering that it could avert, but I will make sure to pay attention to the possible take-home messages when writing blog posts.
I’m happy to hear you state your views outside the post. They seem reasonable and open-minded, which was not my original impression. I look forward to reading more of your work. Always feel free to send me articles/ideas for critique/discussion.
Hi Jacy,
Thanks for your comment and the link to your own post, which I’d not read. I’m glad to see discussion of these indirect effects, and I think it’s an area that needs more work for a deeper understanding.
I’m a bit confused by your hostility, as it seems that we are largely in agreement about the central point, which is that the route to long-term benefits flows in large part through short-term effects on humans (whether those are welfare improvements, value shifts, or some other category). I’m aware that this is not a novel claim, but it’s also one that is not universally known.
I’m particularly confused by your opening sentence. Could you explain how this is harmful or dangerous?
A couple of replies to specific points follow, so that we can thread the conversation properly if need be.
Owen,
I appreciate that you’re thinking about flow-through/long-term effects and definitely agree we need more discussion and understanding in the area.
My “hostility” (although it isn’t that extreme =] really) is primarily due to the propagation of the assumption that “human-focused causes have positive significant flow-through effects while non-human animal-focused causes do not.” We have a lot more research to do into questions like this before we have that sort of confidence.
So the danger here is that impact-focused people might read the post and say “Wow, I should stop trying to support non-human animal-welfare since it doesn’t matter in the long-run!” I realize that your personal view is more nuanced, and I wish that came across more in your post. The possible flow-through effects: (i) promoting antispeciesism, (ii) scope sensitivity, (iii) reducing cognitive dissonance, and many more seem perfectly viable.
Hope that makes sense.
Sure, that makes sense. I think that the post would only be likely to elicit that immediate response in someone whose major reason for supporting animal welfare was the large amount of short-term suffering that it could avert, but I will make sure to pay attention to the possible take-home messages when writing blog posts.
I’m happy to hear you state your views outside the post. They seem reasonable and open-minded, which was not my original impression. I look forward to reading more of your work. Always feel free to send me articles/ideas for critique/discussion.