…we have reviewed 5 of ACE’s “Top 11 Animal Charities to Donate to in 2024” and only one of them (Shrimp Welfare Project) appears to be an effective charity for helping animals. ACE’s poor evaluation process leads to ineffective charities receiving recommendations, and many animals are suffering as a result.
I understand these are forthcoming, but no evidence is provided for this entire part—part of the reason I pushed on this is I think seeing your alternative evaluations would be very helpful for interpreting the strength of the critique of ACE. Without seeing them, I can’t evaluate the latter half of the quoted text. And in my eyes, if these are similar to the evaluation here of LIC, it’s pretty far from demonstrating that ineffective charities are receiving recommendations, etc. And, given that you’ve only evaluated <50% of their charities so far, it seems preemptive to make the overall claim. I think the overall claim is very possibly true, but again, I think to make the argument that animals are directly suffering as a result of this, you’d have to demonstrate that those charities are worse than other donation options, that donors would give to the better options, etc.
Note: this reply addresses everything Abraham claims we did not provide evidence for.
“ACE’s poor evaluation process leads to ineffective charities receiving recommendations”
Our review covered how under ACE’s evaluation process:
Charities can receive a worse Cost-Effectiveness Score by spending less money to achieve the exact same results.
Charities can have 1,000,000 times the impact at the exact same price, and their Cost-Effectiveness Score can remain the same.
The most important factor in determining the impact of an intervention is decided before the intervention even begins.
This is clear evidence that ACE uses a poor evaluation process. Is the fact that ACE’s evaluation process rewards inefficiency, and punishes efficiency, “no evidence” for ACE recommending ineffective charities?
If you’d like me to get even more specific, let’s look at Problem 1 of our review:
We go on to detail how if LIC had spent less than $2,000 on the lawsuit (saving over $200,000) and achieved the exact same outcome, ACE would have assigned LIC a Cost-Effectiveness Score of 1.8. The lowest Cost-Effectiveness Score ACE assigned to any charity in 2023 was 3.3. This means if LIC had spent less than $2,000 on the lawsuit, LIC’s Cost-Effectiveness Score would have been significantly worse than any charity ACE evaluated in 2023.
Instead, LIC spent over $200,000 on the lawsuit, and LIC rewarded them for this inefficiency by giving them a Cost-Effectiveness Score of 3.7, and deeming LIC a top 11 animal charity.
As we noted in our review, these Cost-Effectiveness Scores are defined by ACE as “how cost effective we think the charity has been”. LIC achieved no favorable legal outcomes despite receiving over a million dollars in funding. As we also noted in our review, every lawsuit LIC filed was dismissed for failing to state a valid legal claim.
If I provided evidence that a Law Firm Rating Organization rewards law firms for losing lawsuits and wasting money, and punishes law firms for winning lawsuits and saving money, would this be no evidence that the Law Firm Rating Organization is recommending ineffective law firms?
ACE’s poor evaluation process leads to ineffective charities receiving recommendations, and many animals are suffering as a result.
Our review details how ACE’s recommendations direct the flow of millions of dollars. Are you asking for evidence that directing millions of dollars toward ineffective animal charities, rather than effective ones, leads to animal suffering?
we have reviewed 5 of ACE’s “Top 11 Animal Charities to Donate to in 2024” and only one of them (Shrimp Welfare Project) appears to be an effective charity for helping animals.
Imagine a film critic watches 5 of the 11 films that received a ‘Best Films’ award and writes, “Of the five films I’ve seen, only one appears to deserve the award. I plan to release my reviews of the films shortly.” Does this statement by the film critic require evidence?
I don’t know what you’re saying is inaccurate. My reply addressed every single word from the section you claimed I didn’t provide evidence for.
My claim in the comment above was that you haven’t provided any evidence that:
5 / 11 (or more) ACE top charities are not effective
We never made this claim.
That animals are suffering as a result of ACE recommendations
I’ll ask again. Our review details how ACE is rewarding charities for inefficiency (and punishing them for efficiency), and how LIC was rewarded for their inefficiency with the designation “Top 11 Animal Charities to Donate to in 2024.” Our review also details how ACE’s recommendations direct the flow of millions of dollars. Are you asking for evidence that directing millions of dollars toward ineffective animal charities, rather than effective ones, leads to animal suffering?
You straw manned us, and now you claim that “This is starting to feel pretty bad faith”.
Here is the quote of what we said:
we have reviewed 5 of ACE’s “Top 11 Animal Charities to Donate to in 2024” and only one of them (Shrimp Welfare Project) appears to be an effective charity for helping animals.
Here is the quote of what you said we claimed:
5 / 11 (or more) ACE top charities are not effective
Notice that we said that only one of the 5 appears to be effective (meaning 4did not appear to be effective), and you changed this claim to 5are not effective.
Is the claim “4 did not appear to be effective” the same as “5 are not effective”?
I understand these are forthcoming, but no evidence is provided for this entire part—part of the reason I pushed on this is I think seeing your alternative evaluations would be very helpful for interpreting the strength of the critique of ACE. Without seeing them, I can’t evaluate the latter half of the quoted text. And in my eyes, if these are similar to the evaluation here of LIC, it’s pretty far from demonstrating that ineffective charities are receiving recommendations, etc. And, given that you’ve only evaluated <50% of their charities so far, it seems preemptive to make the overall claim. I think the overall claim is very possibly true, but again, I think to make the argument that animals are directly suffering as a result of this, you’d have to demonstrate that those charities are worse than other donation options, that donors would give to the better options, etc.
Note: this reply addresses everything Abraham claims we did not provide evidence for.
“ACE’s poor evaluation process leads to ineffective charities receiving recommendations”
Our review covered how under ACE’s evaluation process:
Charities can receive a worse Cost-Effectiveness Score by spending less money to achieve the exact same results.
Charities can have 1,000,000 times the impact at the exact same price, and their Cost-Effectiveness Score can remain the same.
The most important factor in determining the impact of an intervention is decided before the intervention even begins.
This is clear evidence that ACE uses a poor evaluation process. Is the fact that ACE’s evaluation process rewards inefficiency, and punishes efficiency, “no evidence” for ACE recommending ineffective charities?
If you’d like me to get even more specific, let’s look at Problem 1 of our review:
We go on to detail how if LIC had spent less than $2,000 on the lawsuit (saving over $200,000) and achieved the exact same outcome, ACE would have assigned LIC a Cost-Effectiveness Score of 1.8. The lowest Cost-Effectiveness Score ACE assigned to any charity in 2023 was 3.3. This means if LIC had spent less than $2,000 on the lawsuit, LIC’s Cost-Effectiveness Score would have been significantly worse than any charity ACE evaluated in 2023.
Instead, LIC spent over $200,000 on the lawsuit, and LIC rewarded them for this inefficiency by giving them a Cost-Effectiveness Score of 3.7, and deeming LIC a top 11 animal charity.
As we noted in our review, these Cost-Effectiveness Scores are defined by ACE as “how cost effective we think the charity has been”. LIC achieved no favorable legal outcomes despite receiving over a million dollars in funding. As we also noted in our review, every lawsuit LIC filed was dismissed for failing to state a valid legal claim.
If I provided evidence that a Law Firm Rating Organization rewards law firms for losing lawsuits and wasting money, and punishes law firms for winning lawsuits and saving money, would this be no evidence that the Law Firm Rating Organization is recommending ineffective law firms?
Our review details how ACE’s recommendations direct the flow of millions of dollars. Are you asking for evidence that directing millions of dollars toward ineffective animal charities, rather than effective ones, leads to animal suffering?
Imagine a film critic watches 5 of the 11 films that received a ‘Best Films’ award and writes, “Of the five films I’ve seen, only one appears to deserve the award. I plan to release my reviews of the films shortly.” Does this statement by the film critic require evidence?
(Responding because this is inaccurate): My claim in the comment above was that you haven’t provided any evidence that:
5 / 11 (or more) ACE top charities are not effective
That animals are suffering as a result of ACE recommendations
Which remains the case — I look forward to you producing it.
I don’t know what you’re saying is inaccurate. My reply addressed every single word from the section you claimed I didn’t provide evidence for.
We never made this claim.
I’ll ask again. Our review details how ACE is rewarding charities for inefficiency (and punishing them for efficiency), and how LIC was rewarded for their inefficiency with the designation “Top 11 Animal Charities to Donate to in 2024.” Our review also details how ACE’s recommendations direct the flow of millions of dollars. Are you asking for evidence that directing millions of dollars toward ineffective animal charities, rather than effective ones, leads to animal suffering?
This is starting to feel pretty bad faith, so I’m actually going to stop engaging.
You straw manned us, and now you claim that “This is starting to feel pretty bad faith”.
Here is the quote of what we said:
Here is the quote of what you said we claimed:
Notice that we said that only one of the 5 appears to be effective (meaning 4 did not appear to be effective), and you changed this claim to 5 are not effective.
Is the claim “4 did not appear to be effective” the same as “5 are not effective”?