This is a really interesting, thoughtful, and empathetic post.
But I had kinda the opposite objection to offsets lol. :-)
I very much applaud people who eat meat and donate to fight farmed animal cruelty. Such people have done, and can do, so much good for animals.
I just worry offsets may focus people on feeling guilty for eating meat. I don’t think people need to feel guilty for eating meat. Animal cruelty isn’t the fault of the consumer. Consumers want the animals they eat to be treated humanely. Indeed, consumers consistently pay extra for labels that suggest the animal was treated humanely. Animal cruelty is the fault of companies and executives that abuse animals. These companies often intentionally mislead consumers with humanewashing. Consumers should have the right to buy meat and assume the animal was treated humanely. Indeed, the general public has voted for laws against animal abuse! For example, cruelty is a crime in every single US state and, as Charles mentions, the public in many states has even explicitly banned things like battery cages via direct democracy. So whose fault is it when companies commit animal cruelty despite the law? In my mind, it’s squarely the company’s or its executive’s fault—not the fault of the public that voted to outlaw cruelty and then attempted to buy products that the public thought were humane.
And I think that people feeling guilty for eating meat is, ironically, bad for animals. I have heard there is some research to suggest that when people feel guilty toward a group, it actually makes people less empathetic toward that group! It makes sense. If we think, “the other political party is hurting X group of people,” we feel bad for X group and want to help them. If we think “my political party is hurting X group of people,” our defense mechanisms kick in and we immediately start coming up with reasons why what we’re doing to X people really isn’t that bad, or is necessary, or is deserved, in order to protect our self image. Then we just try to think about something else, instead of intervening to help X group. It’s usually easier to grapple with someone else’s misdeeds than our own. So why encourage the public to think of Big Ag’s misdeeds as their own?
I suspect that part of the reason the public does so little to improve the plight of animals in factory farms may be because many members of the public wrongly feel like they have no moral standing to complain about the treatment of animals because they already eat meat. This is just what animal abusers want the public to think.
I want to fight back against the idea that anyone who eats meat is part of the problem. I want everyone to feel like we are benevolent heroes who absolutely have moral standing to complain about Big Ag’s treatment of animals. I think that’s the best way to encourage people to fight back.
To be clear: I agree it is GREAT to help animals through donations!
And I think people should donate joyously and feel good about donating—not just feel like they’re doing it to compensate or atone for something.
I also suspect that people who donate joyously may end up giving more than people who are donating to compensate or atone. Because if you enjoy something, you’re inspired to do the maximum amount of it! If I feel great whenever I donate money, why would I stop at my “offset” amount? I’d keep giving until it no longer made me feel great (perhaps because it caused a noticeable decrease in my quality of life), which might end up being ten times the offset amount. What I’ve learned from fundraising is that most people who give a lot of money to charity seem to really enjoy giving money to charity! More broadly, I’ve noticed people tend to do more of any behavior that they enjoy. So I think we should frame donating as joyful and heroic, not some kind of duty or apology.
Plus, if someone sees their friend happily donating to a pro-animal charity, they may want to mimic their friend and join in on the donating. But if someone sees their friend sadly and shamefully donating out of guilt, I doubt they’ll be inspired to mimic their friend and join in.
Lastly, blaming consumers deflects blame from meat companies for the companies’ treatment of animals. Consumer-blame rhetoric lets meat companies claim they’re only giving in to consumer demand. That’s bad for animals. In reality, a single company has way more control over animal welfare than any consumer. A meat company can affect hundreds of millions or billions of animal lives by a decision the company makes on a random day. We should make sure activists, the public, lawmakers, and judges keep our focus on meat companies and work to change the behavior of meat companies, rather than getting distracted by thinking about consumers.
I got this idea from my friend and former colleague who is an environmental activist. She explained to me that the environmental movement used to focus on blaming consumers for buying products and encouraging consumers to recycle. She explained that it wasn’t very effective and deflected blame from companies that actually have way more control over the environment than consumers. She said that the more modern trend in the environmental movement is to focus on holding companies accountable for their decisions, and encouraging the public to become activists. That has struck with me for a long time. If the animal movement is going to ask the public to do something, I want us to encourage the public to vote for pro-animal politicians, donate to pro-animal causes, and pressure companies to treat animals better. And I think the best way to get the public to do that is to focus the public on companies’ behavior.
So I guess, I would push back on both this very thoughtful and kind post (because I don’t think people need to go vegan if they care about animals) and also the very thoughtful and kind idea of offsets (because I don’t blame the public for farmed animal cruelty).
To be clear, I applaud anyone who does anything to help animals—people who go vegan to help animals, people who donate to offset their meat eating to help animals, people who set up offsetting campaigns to help animals, and people who make EA Forum posts encouraging others to go vegan to help animals. I just predict that the best outcome for animals will come on focusing more on how much good we can do and less on how much we can blame ourselves.
I completely agree that individual lifestyle change shouldn’t be a barrier to entry for the movement. We need a broad message so we don’t trap people in an “all or nothing” binary where they feel forced to choose “nothing” just because they aren’t ready for “all” right away. However, I believe veganism must remain a (not imposed but) actively encouraged goal for several key reasons:
1-) The most overlooked power of the vegan position, in my opinion, is its ability to shift the Overton Window. We expand the boundaries of what society considers politically and socially acceptable and this normalizes concepts that once seemed radical. When we water down our message to avoid causing discomfort, however, we effectively keep the conversation anchored to the status quo.
2-) I believe, we sometimes underestimate the moral agency of those around us. While this might vary outside our specific circles, my experience facilitating fellowships (where I’ve run small experiments in how I communicate) has led me to think that by being ‘too quiet,’ I might actually be holding people back. I assume they aren’t ready, but in reality, many are just waiting for a social nudge. They are looking for someone to show them that this change is necessary, possible, and much easier than it seems. By failing to open that door, we miss an opportunity to help them transition.
3-) Research from the Welfare Footprint Institute reveals that the scale of agony in industrial farming is even worse than we assume. Animals endure thousands of hours of “severe” and “disabling” pain. These are beings that belong in our moral circle. So, when we are in a comfortable setting with a high-quality vegan alternative right in front of us, choosing the option that causes immense suffering suggests we haven’t yet fully grasped the moral weight of the issue. I believe we should be communicating the gravity of the situation effectively enough to influence people’s behavior in such situations, at least.
TL;DR: I believe we should avoid gatekeeping the movement but we must normalize the idea that an animal’s life is worth more than our discomfort, especially within our communities, where people might be more open to change than we assume.
This is a really interesting, thoughtful, and empathetic post.
But I had kinda the opposite objection to offsets lol. :-)
I very much applaud people who eat meat and donate to fight farmed animal cruelty. Such people have done, and can do, so much good for animals.
I just worry offsets may focus people on feeling guilty for eating meat. I don’t think people need to feel guilty for eating meat. Animal cruelty isn’t the fault of the consumer. Consumers want the animals they eat to be treated humanely. Indeed, consumers consistently pay extra for labels that suggest the animal was treated humanely. Animal cruelty is the fault of companies and executives that abuse animals. These companies often intentionally mislead consumers with humanewashing. Consumers should have the right to buy meat and assume the animal was treated humanely. Indeed, the general public has voted for laws against animal abuse! For example, cruelty is a crime in every single US state and, as Charles mentions, the public in many states has even explicitly banned things like battery cages via direct democracy. So whose fault is it when companies commit animal cruelty despite the law? In my mind, it’s squarely the company’s or its executive’s fault—not the fault of the public that voted to outlaw cruelty and then attempted to buy products that the public thought were humane.
And I think that people feeling guilty for eating meat is, ironically, bad for animals. I have heard there is some research to suggest that when people feel guilty toward a group, it actually makes people less empathetic toward that group! It makes sense. If we think, “the other political party is hurting X group of people,” we feel bad for X group and want to help them. If we think “my political party is hurting X group of people,” our defense mechanisms kick in and we immediately start coming up with reasons why what we’re doing to X people really isn’t that bad, or is necessary, or is deserved, in order to protect our self image. Then we just try to think about something else, instead of intervening to help X group. It’s usually easier to grapple with someone else’s misdeeds than our own. So why encourage the public to think of Big Ag’s misdeeds as their own?
I suspect that part of the reason the public does so little to improve the plight of animals in factory farms may be because many members of the public wrongly feel like they have no moral standing to complain about the treatment of animals because they already eat meat. This is just what animal abusers want the public to think.
I want to fight back against the idea that anyone who eats meat is part of the problem. I want everyone to feel like we are benevolent heroes who absolutely have moral standing to complain about Big Ag’s treatment of animals. I think that’s the best way to encourage people to fight back.
To be clear: I agree it is GREAT to help animals through donations!
And I think people should donate joyously and feel good about donating—not just feel like they’re doing it to compensate or atone for something.
I also suspect that people who donate joyously may end up giving more than people who are donating to compensate or atone. Because if you enjoy something, you’re inspired to do the maximum amount of it! If I feel great whenever I donate money, why would I stop at my “offset” amount? I’d keep giving until it no longer made me feel great (perhaps because it caused a noticeable decrease in my quality of life), which might end up being ten times the offset amount. What I’ve learned from fundraising is that most people who give a lot of money to charity seem to really enjoy giving money to charity! More broadly, I’ve noticed people tend to do more of any behavior that they enjoy. So I think we should frame donating as joyful and heroic, not some kind of duty or apology.
Plus, if someone sees their friend happily donating to a pro-animal charity, they may want to mimic their friend and join in on the donating. But if someone sees their friend sadly and shamefully donating out of guilt, I doubt they’ll be inspired to mimic their friend and join in.
Lastly, blaming consumers deflects blame from meat companies for the companies’ treatment of animals. Consumer-blame rhetoric lets meat companies claim they’re only giving in to consumer demand. That’s bad for animals. In reality, a single company has way more control over animal welfare than any consumer. A meat company can affect hundreds of millions or billions of animal lives by a decision the company makes on a random day. We should make sure activists, the public, lawmakers, and judges keep our focus on meat companies and work to change the behavior of meat companies, rather than getting distracted by thinking about consumers.
I got this idea from my friend and former colleague who is an environmental activist. She explained to me that the environmental movement used to focus on blaming consumers for buying products and encouraging consumers to recycle. She explained that it wasn’t very effective and deflected blame from companies that actually have way more control over the environment than consumers. She said that the more modern trend in the environmental movement is to focus on holding companies accountable for their decisions, and encouraging the public to become activists. That has struck with me for a long time. If the animal movement is going to ask the public to do something, I want us to encourage the public to vote for pro-animal politicians, donate to pro-animal causes, and pressure companies to treat animals better. And I think the best way to get the public to do that is to focus the public on companies’ behavior.
So I guess, I would push back on both this very thoughtful and kind post (because I don’t think people need to go vegan if they care about animals) and also the very thoughtful and kind idea of offsets (because I don’t blame the public for farmed animal cruelty).
To be clear, I applaud anyone who does anything to help animals—people who go vegan to help animals, people who donate to offset their meat eating to help animals, people who set up offsetting campaigns to help animals, and people who make EA Forum posts encouraging others to go vegan to help animals. I just predict that the best outcome for animals will come on focusing more on how much good we can do and less on how much we can blame ourselves.
Interested in others’ thoughts on my perspective!
I completely agree that individual lifestyle change shouldn’t be a barrier to entry for the movement. We need a broad message so we don’t trap people in an “all or nothing” binary where they feel forced to choose “nothing” just because they aren’t ready for “all” right away. However, I believe veganism must remain a (not imposed but) actively encouraged goal for several key reasons:
1-) The most overlooked power of the vegan position, in my opinion, is its ability to shift the Overton Window. We expand the boundaries of what society considers politically and socially acceptable and this normalizes concepts that once seemed radical. When we water down our message to avoid causing discomfort, however, we effectively keep the conversation anchored to the status quo.
2-) I believe, we sometimes underestimate the moral agency of those around us. While this might vary outside our specific circles, my experience facilitating fellowships (where I’ve run small experiments in how I communicate) has led me to think that by being ‘too quiet,’ I might actually be holding people back. I assume they aren’t ready, but in reality, many are just waiting for a social nudge. They are looking for someone to show them that this change is necessary, possible, and much easier than it seems. By failing to open that door, we miss an opportunity to help them transition.
3-) Research from the Welfare Footprint Institute reveals that the scale of agony in industrial farming is even worse than we assume. Animals endure thousands of hours of “severe” and “disabling” pain. These are beings that belong in our moral circle. So, when we are in a comfortable setting with a high-quality vegan alternative right in front of us, choosing the option that causes immense suffering suggests we haven’t yet fully grasped the moral weight of the issue. I believe we should be communicating the gravity of the situation effectively enough to influence people’s behavior in such situations, at least.
TL;DR: I believe we should avoid gatekeeping the movement but we must normalize the idea that an animal’s life is worth more than our discomfort, especially within our communities, where people might be more open to change than we assume.