Thanks for writing this! I have a more philosophical counter that I’d love for you to respond to.
The idea of haggling doesn’t sit well with me or my idea of what a good society should be like. It feels competitive, uncooperative, and zero-sum, when I want to live in a society where people are honest and cooperative. Specifically, it seems to encourage deceptive pricing and reward people who are willing to be manipulative and stretch the truth.
In other words, haggling gives me bad vibes.
When you think about haggling/negotiating in altruistic context, do you have a framing that is more positive than this? Put another way: Other than saving money for the good guys (us) and costing money for the bad guys (some business), why is all of this “good”?
The idea of haggling doesn’t sit well with me or my idea of what a good society should be like. It feels competitive, uncooperative, and zero-sum, when I want to live in a society where people are honest and cooperative.
Counterpoint: some people are more price-sensitive than typical consumers, and really can’t afford things. If we prohibit or stigmatize haggling, society is leaving value on the table, in terms of sale profits and consumer surplus generated by transactions involving these more financially constrained consumers. (When the seller is a monopolist, they even introduce opportunities like this through the more sinister-sounding practice of price discrimination.)
Thanks for the thoughtful comment, Sawyer. I agree that haggling can be zero sum in many (though not all) cases, and I understand the sentiment of your note.
In my personal experience, haggling hasn’t felt particularly adversarial or deceptive. It feels less like the Pawn Stars guy ripping off antiquers, and more like marketing, campaign finance, professional poker, standardized test prep, quant trading, or another type of legal and socially acceptable form of working for a bigger piece of a fixed pie.
I think Robi raises a good point. Despite transaction costs, I would guess that haggling creates societal surplus on net by enabling more trades. In much (maybe most) of the world, haggling for daily goods is common; I’ve been a fly on the wall at outdoor markets in a handful of LMICs, and my impression is that haggling helps customers and vendors send valuable signals about their willingness to buy/sell.
This isn’t exactly getting at what you wrote, but I feel uncomfortable negotiating when my counterparty seems like they need the money. E.g., if a taxi driver in another country quotes a “tourist” price where it’s pretty clear that locals would haggle and I’m (literally) getting taken for a ride, I pay sticker.
When it comes to contracts with a San Francisco landlord, a big university, or DocuSign, I feel motivated to haggle. Not because I see my counterparty as “the bad guy”, but because haggling is a standard practice following social norms that helps me direct more resources to important projects making the world a better place.
I feel the same way. The moment someone initiates haggling with me, they’ve soured the relationship unless they can demonstrate that they aren’t just haggling because they Want to pay less, but because they Have to and it means a lot to them. Especially if I’ve priced something generously to begin with. Along the lines of “you get what you pay for”, I always remember how a transaction went with someone and it dictates if I want to deal with them in the future or how generous I’ll be with my time/advice/effort in future interactions. Or if I refer them to anyone. People that seem to have the most integrity and likeability are the ones that are happy to pay the indicated price and are aware/appreciative of anything I do above or beyond what’s expected. The worst are the one’s that are a black hole and take a long time, ask tons of questions, ask for me to throw in accessories, and also haggle the price. They are also the one’s that are most likely to return the product, or need help with it in the future. There are plenty of people that expect and enjoy the haggling process on both sides of the transaction, but I suspect in altruistic/empathic circles, the sentiment leans more in the direction I’ve laid out here.
Thanks for writing this! I have a more philosophical counter that I’d love for you to respond to.
The idea of haggling doesn’t sit well with me or my idea of what a good society should be like. It feels competitive, uncooperative, and zero-sum, when I want to live in a society where people are honest and cooperative. Specifically, it seems to encourage deceptive pricing and reward people who are willing to be manipulative and stretch the truth.
In other words, haggling gives me bad vibes.
When you think about haggling/negotiating in altruistic context, do you have a framing that is more positive than this? Put another way: Other than saving money for the good guys (us) and costing money for the bad guys (some business), why is all of this “good”?
Counterpoint: some people are more price-sensitive than typical consumers, and really can’t afford things. If we prohibit or stigmatize haggling, society is leaving value on the table, in terms of sale profits and consumer surplus generated by transactions involving these more financially constrained consumers. (When the seller is a monopolist, they even introduce opportunities like this through the more sinister-sounding practice of price discrimination.)
Thanks for the thoughtful comment, Sawyer. I agree that haggling can be zero sum in many (though not all) cases, and I understand the sentiment of your note.
In my personal experience, haggling hasn’t felt particularly adversarial or deceptive. It feels less like the Pawn Stars guy ripping off antiquers, and more like marketing, campaign finance, professional poker, standardized test prep, quant trading, or another type of legal and socially acceptable form of working for a bigger piece of a fixed pie.
I think Robi raises a good point. Despite transaction costs, I would guess that haggling creates societal surplus on net by enabling more trades. In much (maybe most) of the world, haggling for daily goods is common; I’ve been a fly on the wall at outdoor markets in a handful of LMICs, and my impression is that haggling helps customers and vendors send valuable signals about their willingness to buy/sell.
This isn’t exactly getting at what you wrote, but I feel uncomfortable negotiating when my counterparty seems like they need the money. E.g., if a taxi driver in another country quotes a “tourist” price where it’s pretty clear that locals would haggle and I’m (literally) getting taken for a ride, I pay sticker.
When it comes to contracts with a San Francisco landlord, a big university, or DocuSign, I feel motivated to haggle. Not because I see my counterparty as “the bad guy”, but because haggling is a standard practice following social norms that helps me direct more resources to important projects making the world a better place.
I feel the same way. The moment someone initiates haggling with me, they’ve soured the relationship unless they can demonstrate that they aren’t just haggling because they Want to pay less, but because they Have to and it means a lot to them. Especially if I’ve priced something generously to begin with. Along the lines of “you get what you pay for”, I always remember how a transaction went with someone and it dictates if I want to deal with them in the future or how generous I’ll be with my time/advice/effort in future interactions. Or if I refer them to anyone. People that seem to have the most integrity and likeability are the ones that are happy to pay the indicated price and are aware/appreciative of anything I do above or beyond what’s expected. The worst are the one’s that are a black hole and take a long time, ask tons of questions, ask for me to throw in accessories, and also haggle the price. They are also the one’s that are most likely to return the product, or need help with it in the future. There are plenty of people that expect and enjoy the haggling process on both sides of the transaction, but I suspect in altruistic/empathic circles, the sentiment leans more in the direction I’ve laid out here.