Totally, I did not mean to suggest that protein and fiber are fungible. Rather I wonder if plant-based options might do better to play to their strengths, one of which is fiber.
I would also say that I’ve never noticed if the Sofritas portion is smaller than the equivalent animal-based portion but if that were true on average across Chipotles, it would suggest some interesting follow-ups:
do servers implicitly believe that folks who order plant-based are more “health-conscious”, whatever that means, and thus want smaller portions?
does Chipotle have some official guidance on different portion sizes?
As a side note, it seems that many people I talk to IRL have somewhat extreme beliefs about how much protein they need & don’t have a good sense of how much protein is in grains and legumes, but that is a post for another time. (Update: a little research suggests, indeed, someconfusionsaroundthis topic, but also generally low enthusiasm for PBAs)
Truly shocked by the research above. Another reminder of just how far one drifts from the norm when getting enthusiastic about a particular topic. I really thought (despite personal experience to the contrary) that everyone knows cottage cheese is high protein and peanut butter has some protein, but not great macros (high fat:protein ratio).
I think we’ve drifted well away from the habits of normal consumers now, but I will add say that there seems to be some agreement that protein intake up to 1.6 grams per kilogram of body weight per day (g/kg/day) tends to maximize resistance exercise-induced gains in muscle mass.
There’s probably some room to lower that by looking for a point of decreasing marginal returns, but it seems to me that most weight lifters will target 1.6 + some safety margin that makes them feel good.
My main point here is that among weight lifters who are paying attention to science, there’s a very clear answer to how much protein we need (or choose to consume for gains).
I wonder what the optimal protein intake is for trying to increase power to mass ratio, which is the core thing the sports I do (running, climbing, and hiking) ask for. I do not think that gaining mass is the average health/fitness goal, nor obviously the right thing for most people. I’d bet that most Americans would put losing weight and aerobic capacity a fair bit higher.
Sure, I’m not making a strong claim that they consistently actually are giving smaller portions across stores but in my experience they often do. It may also have to do with how sofritas does not heap well on the spoon, relative to mounds of chicken or beef bits. The sofritas tray is also often almost empty, and maybe they don’t refill it so much due to not wanting it to end up going to waste—I’ve had multiple times where they just scrape some last bits out when they should refill it and get a proper spoonful. But apologies if this is turning into a chipotle review thread!
I agree that people have somewhat extreme beliefs about how much protein they need, but it’s going to be hard to tip that trend. I think plant-based advocates are also often ignorant though with respect to the optimal amino acid profiles of protein for fitness/muscle building purposes. BCAAs, for example, are often much lower than in animal proteins, even if the protein number is high. When people wade in but don’t know these things, it can invalidate their overall point.
[edit: The above relates to spaces in which I think the ‘more protein = better’ trend evolved from, but protein listed on everything has taken on a bit of a mind of its own. I’d be interested to know actually whether now there is just a generic perception that protein = healthy, in which case other healthiness factors could be somewhat fungible—just not for the sorts of people I was thinking of]
I’d be interested in research, or conducting research even, on people’s perceptions of these kinds of things if there were interest in it.
I can’t access to look at the specific studies but unfortunately most exercise science is like nutrition science generally (very hard to control, considerable participant variability) but with even smaller samples/statistical power, and insufficiently long periods to observe effects. They also rarely target vegetarian or vegans, so this combination is even less known about. The 1.6-2g/kg/day target is reasonable and supported, but there is an interesting body of research about BCAAs and in particular mechanistic work on the ‘leucine threshold’ for stimulating muscle protein synthesis, with suggestions to bump up leucine when taking plant-based proteins for maximal triggering of MPS. I’m not 100% convinced such work is correct, but enough to implement elements of it. Whether it is completely proven or not my concern raised above was that many plant-based advocates might not be aware that there is even something to consider beyond just protein or macros.
Happy to discuss further but cognizant of hijacking the discussion with something not actually related to the interesting report the authors provided!
Totally, I did not mean to suggest that protein and fiber are fungible. Rather I wonder if plant-based options might do better to play to their strengths, one of which is fiber.
I would also say that I’ve never noticed if the Sofritas portion is smaller than the equivalent animal-based portion but if that were true on average across Chipotles, it would suggest some interesting follow-ups:
do servers implicitly believe that folks who order plant-based are more “health-conscious”, whatever that means, and thus want smaller portions?
does Chipotle have some official guidance on different portion sizes?
As a side note, it seems that many people I talk to IRL have somewhat extreme beliefs about how much protein they need & don’t have a good sense of how much protein is in grains and legumes, but that is a post for another time. (Update: a little research suggests, indeed, some confusions around this topic, but also generally low enthusiasm for PBAs)
Truly shocked by the research above. Another reminder of just how far one drifts from the norm when getting enthusiastic about a particular topic. I really thought (despite personal experience to the contrary) that everyone knows cottage cheese is high protein and peanut butter has some protein, but not great macros (high fat:protein ratio).
I think we’ve drifted well away from the habits of normal consumers now, but I will add say that there seems to be some agreement that protein intake up to 1.6 grams per kilogram of body weight per day (g/kg/day) tends to maximize resistance exercise-induced gains in muscle mass.
There’s probably some room to lower that by looking for a point of decreasing marginal returns, but it seems to me that most weight lifters will target 1.6 + some safety margin that makes them feel good.
My main point here is that among weight lifters who are paying attention to science, there’s a very clear answer to how much protein we need (or choose to consume for gains).
I wonder what the optimal protein intake is for trying to increase power to mass ratio, which is the core thing the sports I do (running, climbing, and hiking) ask for. I do not think that gaining mass is the average health/fitness goal, nor obviously the right thing for most people. I’d bet that most Americans would put losing weight and aerobic capacity a fair bit higher.
Sure, I’m not making a strong claim that they consistently actually are giving smaller portions across stores but in my experience they often do. It may also have to do with how sofritas does not heap well on the spoon, relative to mounds of chicken or beef bits. The sofritas tray is also often almost empty, and maybe they don’t refill it so much due to not wanting it to end up going to waste—I’ve had multiple times where they just scrape some last bits out when they should refill it and get a proper spoonful. But apologies if this is turning into a chipotle review thread!
I agree that people have somewhat extreme beliefs about how much protein they need, but it’s going to be hard to tip that trend. I think plant-based advocates are also often ignorant though with respect to the optimal amino acid profiles of protein for fitness/muscle building purposes. BCAAs, for example, are often much lower than in animal proteins, even if the protein number is high. When people wade in but don’t know these things, it can invalidate their overall point.
[edit: The above relates to spaces in which I think the ‘more protein = better’ trend evolved from, but protein listed on everything has taken on a bit of a mind of its own. I’d be interested to know actually whether now there is just a generic perception that protein = healthy, in which case other healthiness factors could be somewhat fungible—just not for the sorts of people I was thinking of]
I’d be interested in research, or conducting research even, on people’s perceptions of these kinds of things if there were interest in it.
To pile on: a local Mexican chain also consistently puts less of PMAs into their tacos than they do meat.
I’m generally a “hit the 1.6g/kg/day target” kind of guy and have been ignoring BCAAs. The effect of branched-chain amino acids supplementation in physical exercise: A systematic review of human randomized controlled trials—ScienceDirect suggests that’s still a valid strategy, but I’m open to learning more.
I can’t access to look at the specific studies but unfortunately most exercise science is like nutrition science generally (very hard to control, considerable participant variability) but with even smaller samples/statistical power, and insufficiently long periods to observe effects. They also rarely target vegetarian or vegans, so this combination is even less known about. The 1.6-2g/kg/day target is reasonable and supported, but there is an interesting body of research about BCAAs and in particular mechanistic work on the ‘leucine threshold’ for stimulating muscle protein synthesis, with suggestions to bump up leucine when taking plant-based proteins for maximal triggering of MPS. I’m not 100% convinced such work is correct, but enough to implement elements of it. Whether it is completely proven or not my concern raised above was that many plant-based advocates might not be aware that there is even something to consider beyond just protein or macros.
Happy to discuss further but cognizant of hijacking the discussion with something not actually related to the interesting report the authors provided!